Grapple Saw

[Smiffy]

What kind of firm runs that size kit and yet doesn't have their own bowser? Filling at a garage is such a waste of time, it's never just five minutes. It's twenty minutes out of your way, wait to squeeze in then a long queue to pay because they can't be arsed to open two tills. A penny a litre extra for derv delivered is nothing compared to the time savings of just filling up in the afternoon with a cup of cuffee whilst unloading, especially now the machines are on derv too.

It wasn't one firm it was 5 different ones. It's just that there is one particular petrol station that all the tree gangs and gardeners go in every morning to get their coffee and have a chin wag.

 

[HuntingHicap]

Thats the one at Milford with a Greggs....been guilty of it myself in the past. Counted 15 different arb set ups in there one morning

 

[JD450A]

Said person subsequently performed the most incredible about-face (probably through push-back on high-compliance sites a world away from their previous pond-digging experience) and became (rightly in fairness) the biggest shouter-from-the-rooftops about attachment weights/load charts/working envelopes etc.

Said Zeppelin also shouted from the rooftops about how Long reach excavators were not suitable for the task and that converted materials handlers where the only acceptable solution..... and has subsequently had some long reaches made

I'd say it says whatever is most suited to the economic situation at the time.

 

[GazCro]

Said Zeppelin also shouted from the rooftops about how Long reach excavators were not suitable for the task and that converted materials handlers where the only acceptable solution..... and has subsequently had some long reaches made

I'd say it says whatever is most suited to the economic situation at the time.
View attachment 40373

His are the only machines in existence capable and safe to do the job the job though

 

[Smiffy]

Thats the one at Milford with a Greggs....been guilty of it myself in the past. Counted 15 different arb set ups in there one morning

Yeah they must be making far to much money as it's bloody expensive in there

 

[HuntingHicap]

Bacon roll and a hot drink for under 3 quid if I remember rightly...

 

[Smiffy]

Bacon roll and a hot drink for under 3 quid if I remember rightly...

The Gregg's is ok
The actual shop was nearly 3 quid for a small pack of hob nobs. I went without.

 

[Lynchy]

Jayzuz....must've been ahead of my time,can remember on rail jobs,just drop off bucket ,use opened quick hitch to grab n snap off lol branches taking trees down that were in the way, having said that not just tree climbing,been on more than one rope access job,where...rope access wasn't allowed so drill steel changing, meshing etc had to be done by mewp,thereby taking far longer

 

[craig]

Yeah they must be making far to much money as it's bloody expensive in there

At £3k a day in that ebay ad with the sennebogen, you would like to think there was enough in the job for a coffee

 

[doobin]

It wasn't one firm it was 5 different ones. It's just that there is one particular petrol station that all the tree gangs and gardeners go in every morning to get their coffee and have a chin wag.

Not on my dime they don’t! skivers charter, ‘just nipping to get diesel’

 

[AHPP]

But I don't think the end of ash die back will be the end of them. These will be pushed into every sector of arb in the name of health and safety. I would be surprised if in a few years if you see climbers on commercial jobs. They will be left to thee smallest of domestic work and jobs where their is no access for anything mechanical. Be it grapple saw or mewp.

Rightly in many respects. They're excellent tools that should be used more. I chastised a client the other day for sending me up a slog of a climb when there was access for a crane/grapple saw. As it worked out, I did it cheaper than a crane but that's only because I'm a better than average climber. If I'd taken a second day or broken something, it would have been cheaper to get a crane in from the start. People should never be forced though. Let the market sort it out.

Worth noting the most successful grapple saw setups have been created by lads that already climb.

Yes. Tree people get trees. Construction machine operators looking to diversify should tread carefully. I would never presume to tell a man he can't do something but a tree man operating a machine will generally be better than a machine man operating on trees. Weight, balance, snappiness, deadness etc.

Think about it, the majority of climbed trees are ones well above the safe size of a average grapple saw to cut.

No. Trees that get climbed are inaccessible or uneconomical for cranes. Size doesn't come into it. You can always crane/grapple it down in smaller pieces. Once the small diameter stuff has gone, the head comes off, the chains go on and a climber cuts for the bare hiab.

The ones to big for the grapple saws will be be accessed by mewps. And I'm not saying climbers will disappear. It will just have to be strongly justified. As with the steeplejack. It will become the reserve option. For when other routes are not possible. It's already like that in Germany. They will use every option before climbing. And sadly the opinions of climbers themselves will not matter as they won't making the rules. I highly doubt they will even be allowed to argue the case. It will be like so many other things where the change will be driven by people in suits. And yes at some point it might go wrong when someone takes to big a cut. But that is nice accident from the point of view hse. It's someone's fault. Blame can easily be placed on the operator a statement can be issued telling everyone to not over do it, all rapped up by lunchtime. If a climber falls out a tree due to a branch snapping that's a bad accident as how do you place a blame? It's much harder to form any kind of conclusion.

As said. Everything will eventually have to be mechanised where possible, not necessarily by grapple saw. Mewps will be perfectly legitimate to use. And the change will be driven by men in suits.

There are far to many big arb firms running this kit now for it to be ignored. It will start with commercial work and filter down.
It's not going to be instant but it will inevitably happen, purely on a box ticking excercise.

If the hierarchy you describe with MEWPs, cranes etc tallied with life on the ground, it would already be that way. Great MEWPs and cranes have been out there for years not being used for trees. The Arb Association flowchart for whether you should use a MEWP has been happily ignored for years. Tree firms like what they know (ropes etc) and are extremely careful spenders on 'unnecessary' plant.
Visitors to the APF just gone will no doubt have noticed the yellow crane tree dismantling demonstration. The charlatan Welsh cvnt in charge of it is luckily a grimy arb type at heart, not an effective suit, and is luckily incapable of doing the serious harm to the industry that he wants to (via the s**t training course he had the British taxvictim pay him to develop). I totally get your cynicism but I think it's a way off yet.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Visitors to the APF just gone will no doubt have noticed the yellow crane tree dismantling demonstration.

To right....wtf was that about ....

 

[AHPP]

I reckon excavator based shears/grapplesaws have pretty much reached saturation in the UK. Away from roads (places you could get a lorry based grapplesaw), they're just not that important and it doesn't matter if they drop stuff or tip over etc. Everyone's lashing together cheapish ones and that's fine. The minority of high quality machines for dolescum work like motorway and rail will be looked after by compliance enthusiasts like LGP Eddie. The high quality arb types like Julian Bluesky, Alistair Magee, John Dryad (and newcomers who I'm sure exist but I haven't noticed yet) will sort out the bulk of the actually tricky roadside stuff. There's only so many trees in this country you know.

 

[AHPP]

To right....wtf was that about ....

I was thrilled when I saw it on the show programme and hugely disappointed when I'd watched them. I'd love some high quality crane training. That bloke (Andrew Dowden) did not provide any. He was just there punting his hopeful crane paperwork. He told me that btw.

 

[Lancs Lad]

I was thrilled when I saw it on the show programme and hugely disappointed when I'd watched them. I'd love some high quality crane training. That bloke (Andrew Dowden) did not provide any. He was just there punting his hopeful crane paperwork. He told me that btw.

Brilliant display of communications

 

[JD450A]

No. Trees that get climbed are inaccessible or uneconomical for cranes. Size doesn't come into it. You can always crane/grapple it down in smaller pieces. Once the small diameter stuff has gone, the head comes off, the chains go on and a climber cuts for the bare hiab.

That's kinda my point.... you'll still be taking a climber, because above say a 1' diameter your getting into either serious shear/grapplesaw territory (that needs a ridiculous sized mount) or you'll be climbing, cutting and rigging it to lower with a crane/hiab. If you have to have climbers to do that the reality is they still exist.

 

[AHPP]

Brilliant display of communications

When I asked why they didn’t have comms, he said they were only taking tiny picks and the climber and crane operator both knew the loads etc. Even if that was the case, there were still hundreds of people watching something called a demonstration. Perfect opportunity to listen in to the weight and preload discussion. They should have had comms and mics to a PA on both of them.
You no doubt saw the pick where the climber started cutting and the narrator was desperately trying to get him to stop? That was a great demonstration of why comms are so important. He only wanted him to wait for the sake of the demo but it could have just as easily been any number of bloody important things. Embarrassing.

 

[Lancs Lad]

When I asked why they didn’t have comms, he said they were only taking tiny picks and the climber and crane operator both knew the loads etc. Even if that was the case, there were still hundreds of people watching something called a demonstration. Perfect opportunity to listen in to the weight and preload discussion. They should have had comms and mics to a PA on both of them.
You no doubt saw the pick where the climber started cutting and the narrator was desperately trying to get him to stop? That was a great demonstration of why comms are so important. He only wanted him to wait for the sake of the demo but it could have just as easily been any number of bloody important things. Embarrassing.

Yep ..and yep. It was beyond embarrassing.
All us lads said exact thing as we walked up the hill...wtf are the Comms. Looking round as that shouting was going on the same look on anyones face with a bit of arb experience said the same thing.
We didn't hang about long. Ruddy shame as must have cost a few quid to setup etc.

 

[AHPP]

must have cost a few quid to setup etc.

Who do you think paid?

 

[Lancs Lad]

Who do you think paid?

Confor...presume
My point was same as you great educational setup with school kids there etc ....and there they were shouting at each other and obviously not getting through ..