What fallout from this?

[Stroppymonkey]

Jon-Paul Prigent: Prevention of Future Deaths Report - Courts and Tribunals Judiciary

Date of report: 26/11/2024 Ref: 2024-0648 Deceased name: Jon-Paul Prigent Coroners name: Peter Nieto Coroners Area: Derby and Derbyshire Category: Road (Highways Safety) related deaths This report is being sent to: Department for Transport | Driving Standards Agency | The National...

www.judiciary.uk

 

[Vinpetrol]

Jon-Paul Prigent: Prevention of Future Deaths Report - Courts and Tribunals Judiciary

Date of report: 26/11/2024 Ref: 2024-0648 Deceased name: Jon-Paul Prigent Coroners name: Peter Nieto Coroners Area: Derby and Derbyshire Category: Road (Highways Safety) related deaths This report is being sent to: Department for Transport | Driving Standards Agency | The National...

www.judiciary.uk

Wow ! It’s been coming for some time though . Farms have been getting away with hauling huge loads with tractors quite long distances up here . I suppose it’s more difficult to load Lorrys to do the hauling from the middle of a field though .

 

[Lancs Lad]

Very sad indeed. And to think a few metres of decent chain would have prevented that.

 

[Stroppymonkey]

Very sad indeed. And to think a few metres of decent chain would have prevented that.

I think that’s the takeaway message . It was preventable. I can’t drive a 750kg trailer without breakaway cable, but you can have 10t plus trailer behind tractor on road without …

 

[Smiffy]

Wow ! It’s been coming for some time though . Farms have been getting away with hauling huge loads with tractors quite long distances up here . I suppose it’s more difficult to load Lorrys to do the hauling from the middle of a field though .

Transfer trailers and chaser trailers have been around a long time now. And they can be tracked or have more and bigger tyres to reduce ground damage. It just takes farmers a long time to adapt to anything.

Having spent years driving tractors thinking it was all fun and games, the first time I took a lorry fully loaded, I remember thinking how awful tractors actually are. And I think this is probably the problem with farmers is they don't realize how much better a lorry is in terms of handling steering stopping and most of all comfort.

 

[doobin]

By the look of it the tractor being used illegally for non agri purposes and illegal tipping also.

“The tractor and trailer belonged to and was used by a skip hire company. On 30 July they were being used to transport soil from the business premises and yard to the family home for use on land surrounding the property”

Yeah right

 

[Lancs Lad]

By the look of it the tractor being used illegally for non agri purposes and illegal tipping also.

“The tractor and trailer belonged to and was used by a skip hire company. On 30 July they were being used to transport soil from the business premises and yard to the family home for use on land surrounding the property”

Yeah right

Exactly...no hint that this is agri at all
Plenty of places round here now.
Buy up or rent an old farm. Rent The land out and then run your waste site, haulage,groundworks or whatever else from "the farm" not saying I dont blame them exactly as the property's suit the game but just don't call it "farming" or agri.

"Tractors and trailers driven on roads for ‘agricultural purposes’ are not subject to periodic independent vehicle testing"

So begs the question....is he gonna get the book thrown at him? As he sure as heck would if it was a wagon

 

[V8Druid]

" – The owner and user of the tractor and trailer was required to check their roadworthiness including the hitch and coupling components before each day of use. ........The driver of the tractor stated that had he seen the degree of wear on the components he would not have taken the tractor trailer on to the road on 30 July. " he obviously had not carried out his obligations - it is the driver's responsibility to ensure the vehicle is fit and roadworthy before each use .. that is NO excuse whatsoever ... he alone was responsible for using it in a defective state

no one's gonna be able to ignore this one ... this coroner would seem to be determined

the last bits are the bits that're gonna/should make waves ..

will be interesting to follow this one

 

[Smiffy]

" – The owner and user of the tractor and trailer was required to check their roadworthiness including the hitch and coupling components before each day of use. ........The driver of the tractor stated that had he seen the degree of wear on the components he would not have taken the tractor trailer on to the road on 30 July. " he obviously had not carried out his obligations - it is the driver's responsibility to ensure the vehicle is fit and roadworthy before each use .. that is NO excuse whatsoever ... he alone was responsible for using it in a defective state

no one's gonna be able to ignore this one ... this coroner would seem to be determined
View attachment 66796

the last bits are the bits that're/should make waves ..
View attachment 66795

will be interesting to follow this one

Has he been trained as is he competent to carry out the checks. Training and checking competency are the responsibility of the employer.
Also hse look to see if there is a culture of doing the wrong thing. Both of these can put the onus on to the employer.

 

[pettsy]

Coroners are pretty powerful people, didn’t hear about this accident even though it’s not that far from me

 

[Stroppymonkey]

Has he been trained as is he competent to carry out the checks. Training and checking competency are the responsibility of the employer.
Also hse look to see if there is a culture of doing the wrong thing. Both of these can put the onus on to the employer.

" – The owner and user of the tractor and trailer was required to check their roadworthiness including the hitch and coupling components before each day of use. ........The driver of the tractor stated that had he seen the degree of wear on the components he would not have taken the tractor trailer on to the road on 30 July. " he obviously had not carried out his obligations - it is the driver's responsibility to ensure the vehicle is fit and roadworthy before each use .. that is NO excuse whatsoever ... he alone was responsible for using it in a defective state

no one's gonna be able to ignore this one ... this coroner would seem to be determined
View attachment 66796

the last bits are the bits that're/should make waves ..
View attachment 66795

will be interesting to follow this one

I hope that that the focus in on sensible improvements to safety standards as a result , but penalising the individual involved as an example will probably be the outcome.

 

[Smiffy]

I hope that that the focus in on sensible improvements to safety standards as a result , but penalising the individual involved as an example will probably be the outcome.

They are capable of reasonable thinking sometimes. That lad that had the fatal collision in a tipper after repeatedly defecting the breaks. The mechanic and owner got prosecuted.
Very reasonable as they had clearly pressured the lad into the situation.

 

[V8Druid]

Has he been trained as is he competent to carry out the checks. Training and checking competency are the responsibility of the employer.
Also hse look to see if there is a culture of doing the wrong thing. Both of these can put the onus on to the employer.

if he wasn't competent he should not have been at the wheel - end of ....
you are responsible for the vehicle's safety the moment you get behind the wheel - end of ...
in the good old days of log books/daily/weekly inspection logs, you HAD to sign to confirm that you had done your due diligence.

if he wasn't competent he should not have been at the wheel - end of ....

 

[Stroppymonkey]

if he wasn't competent he should not have been at the wheel - end of ....
you are responsible for the vehicle's safety the moment you get behind the wheel - end of ...
in the good old days of log books/daily/weekly inspection logs, you HAD to sign to confirm that you had done your due diligence.

if he wasn't competent he should not have been at the wheel - end of ....

This is the issue though, the only thing needed to deem competence for Ag tractor and trailer is a B licence. Which for road use is crazy. I’ve said for years that we need a speeding tractor driver to kill a bus load of kids/nuns/MPs for it to change.
I can’t even drive a 4.25ton van on my license, yet I’m fine and legal to go 29ton up on a vehicle with no MOT. No logic.

 

[V8Druid]

This is the issue though, the only thing needed to deem competence for Ag tractor and trailer is a B licence. Which for road use is crazy. I’ve said for years that we need a speeding tractor driver to kill a bus load of kids/nuns/MPs for it to change.
I can’t even drive a 4.25ton van on my license, yet I’m fine and legal to go 29ton up on a vehicle with no MOT. No logic.

no .. that is simply a test of his ability to manoeuvre the traccy to a given level ..... competence to be in charge of it goes way beyond that. Very much doubt many would pass if this was the criteria for the test

 

[Stroppymonkey]

no .. that is simply a test of his ability to manoeuvre the traccy to a given level ..... competence to be in charge of it goes way beyond that. Very much doubt many would pass if this was the criteria for the test

In my industry competency is proven by initial training and then periodic inspection and CPD. Ditto transport industry, yet Ag falls outside ALL of this. If there are no set standards to measure competency by, then it’s very hard to prove someone incompetent.
Whilst we might disagree as to how responsible the individual driver was in this case, and what his punishment should be, we must surely agree that the regulations concerning the on road use of AGR vehicles is overdue a review at least.

 

[Smiffy]

if he wasn't competent he should not have been at the wheel - end of ....
you are responsible for the vehicle's safety the moment you get behind the wheel - end of ...
in the good old days of log books/daily/weekly inspection logs, you HAD to sign to confirm that you had done your due diligence.

if he wasn't competent he should not have been at the wheel - end of ....

That's what I mean. If there is no proof of competence then it sits with the employer.
That's why in reality employees are better off without tickets as there sole purpose is to shift blame from employer to employee.

And any form of formal training is very sparse in agriculture once they leave college.
There is no point in setting the world to rights or at least agriculture as it will simply give you a headache. I think a lot of farmers with modern tractors are similar to African warlords with ak47's they are in possession of dangerous equipment that far exceeds there morals ethics and training.
Farms are still in the dark ages when it comes to health and safety.

 

[Stroppymonkey]

no .. that is simply a test of his ability to manoeuvre the traccy to a given level ..... competence to be in charge of it goes way beyond that. Very much doubt many would pass if this was the criteria for the test

That's what I mean. If there is no proof of competence then it sits with the employer.
That's why in reality employees are better off without tickets as there sole purpose is to shift blame from employer to employee.

And any form of formal training is very sparse in agriculture once they leave college.
There is no point in setting the world to rights or at least agriculture as it will simply give you a headache. I think a lot of farmers with modern tractors are similar to African warlords with ak47's they are in possession of dangerous equipment that far exceeds there morals ethics and training.
Farms are still in the dark ages when it comes to health and safety.

Classic example for you. My 67 year old father nearly came a cropper this week. Had a tractor loader bucket of readimix lifted up about 8ft, had climbed up there and was shovelling it into some raised formwork to repair a rotten timber shed leg. Bullocks were in the shed as well, and started enthusiastically licking the loader levers (no cab) and nearly tipped him out. Would have made a good story at the funeral. Luckily my cousin was about and got them away before harm occurred. Standard farming safety.