Trailer freedom day.

[Justme]

Pulling out at a junction is one of the things I talking about.
In a test you have to wait until it's completely clear it's not acceptable to boot it and make a vehicle a mile off let off the throttle. So by saying not looking your being a bit overdramatic. When in reality I bet a very small proportion of those would actually cause an accident in the real world.
Checking it's securely attached again is slightly over dramatized in the test as opposed to what actually needs doing.
And trailer checks are entirely open to interpretation by the examiner. Yes you can be very thorough for test purposes but what would be a perfectly good check on a trailer you own could fail you under certain examiners.

I think there should be a trailer test but the one there was was pointless anyway.
The reversing and trailer loading i.e. the most important parts of trailer work are completely neglected. Instead focusing on driving fowards when a trailer literally follows you

Once you have sat in a few hundred tests & done thousands of hours sat next to people talking action to prevent death / crashes then I will respect your opinion.

You dont need an empty road to pull out. Even on test.
In fact not pulling out when safe is also a fault.

You do need time to get the trailer out they way without scaring the oncoming traffic.
Plenty cause the oncoming vehicle to screech to a stop to prevent a crash into the vehicle never mind the trailer.

How can a hitch test be over dramatised to what is needed? You either do it or you do not. Its a simple test done in less than a second that esure the equipment is working correctly.

The main trailer safety check that I mean & most would fail for it not checking the lights are working correctly.

I guess you never took the test as reversing is part of the test.

PS I love it that people that have at best only had one or two experiences of the test know all about the test & everyone that takes training / testing.

 

[V8Druid]

I think there should be a trailer test but the one there was was pointless anyway.
The reversing and trailer loading i.e. the most important parts of trailer work are completely neglected. Instead focusing on driving fowards when a trailer literally follows you

agreed Smiffy ...
problem a lot of drivers have is a total lack of spatial awareness .....
cutting too tight into a corner, with a trailer on puts it over a curb, or into a wall/vehicle, just going forwards ...
as for reversing ...
not that many drivers can cope with just the vehicle let alone a trailer ...
to say now't about correct load distribution and load security.

 

[Justme]

agreed Smiffy ...
problem a lot of drivers have is a total lack of spatial awareness .....
cutting too tight into a corner, with a trailer on puts it over a curb, or into a wall/vehicle, just going forwards ...
as for reversing ...
not that many drivers can cope with just the vehicle let alone a trailer ...
to say now't about correct load distribution and load security.

All of which was covered in the old test syllabus.

 

[Smiffy]

Once you have sat in a few hundred tests & done thousands of hours sat next to people talking action to prevent death / crashes then I will respect your opinion.

You dont need an empty road to pull out. Even on test.
In fact not pulling out when safe is also a fault.

You do need time to get the trailer out they way without scaring the oncoming traffic.
Plenty cause the oncoming vehicle to screech to a stop to prevent a crash into the vehicle never mind the trailer.

How can a hitch test be over dramatised to what is needed? You either do it or you do not. Its a simple test done in less than a second that esure the equipment is working correctly.

The main trailer safety check that I mean & most would fail for it not checking the lights are working correctly.

I guess you never took the test as reversing is part of the test.

PS I love it that people that have at best only had one or two experiences of the test know all about the test & everyone that takes training / testing.

No I haven't taken the trailer test I didn't need to as I took a c+e instead. So I did exactly the same reverse just on a bigger scale. And therefore I know it's an absolute joke. A waste of time it doesn't even start to give you time to learn to reverse properly!!

As for respecting my opinion I couldn't care less as it's quite obvious you are spitting be your dummy out as you have lost your source of income. There is more than one forum you have that you have done this on aswell as trying to push opinions on people labelled as facts, when the fact is you require no specific training or qualifications to do trailer training and some of the things you have spouted on here quite clearly show that.
3 days training will realistically not change people's driving one jot. All you do is teach them how to pass a test! Just about every person on the road has past a test but the standard of driving is terrible. I've spent enough time sitting watching from a lorry cab to say that attaching a trailer makes not a jot of difference to how bad people drive and again 3 days trading and a test is not going to improve it. As Ive said I agree with having a test but in its current format it's a waste of time purely bought in to keeps us inline with Europe.

 

[JD450A]

The trailer test was and always was a ginormous waste of money and time. I'm sorry but I just don't agree that it gave any safety benifits whatsover... heres why.

1. The Rules always allowed either 3.5t + 800kg trailer or a trailer and unit combination weight of up to 3.5t.... which resulted in the Unlicensed simply buying lighter towing vehicles to pull there wobble box, or landscapers buying 3.5t vans and overloading them..... neither great for safety.
2. The test never covered the most important part of towing, which is your weight distribution and load security..

I could go on but you get my gist.

Regarding Insurers.... Sister passed her B test yesterday (Woo free B+E)..... Strangely it is cheaper to insure her outright on a Ford Ranger than to insure her on a Mini cooper.....

 

[Maxus]

I think there is a need to educate people on the basics of trailer safety. Unlike a car there is no mot and with 3.5T on the back if the trailers brakes aren't working properly you could get into trouble. Maybe the original test was a bit pointless, but now we've swung back in the other direction! Common sense would be a basic theory test and a scaled back practical.

 

[Lancs Lad]

I'll say it again tho...did someone in Whitehall not just say folk towed trailers 40 years ago and drove 7.5t and there's a lot of old buggers alive...

 

[V8Druid]

I'll say it again tho...did someone in Whitehall not just say folk towed trailers 40 years ago and drove 7.5t and there's a lot of old buggers alive...

me for one .... have owned many trailers and built hundreds more ... Have towed ever since passing my test in 74/5 (can't recall exactly) and all sorts of sizes / shapes, towed by all sorts of vehicles .....
rule #1 has always been .. load it right so the tail doesn't wag the dog
rule #2 ... make sure your tyres're good, cos sure as eggs, a blow out is gonna end one way - badly (as a general rule)
rule #3... make sure the towing vehicle has the balls to get you out of trouble and not into it

 

[doobin]

The test never covered the most important part of towing, which is your weight distribution and load security..
.

You’re shitting me? Only this afternoon I was heading back with a a trailer full of scaffold that just wouldn’t sit right. Only around 1.8t load but too equal a distribution. It’s an Ifor beaver tail, 14’, and it always needs the load right against the headboard which wasn’t possible. A 16’, which is much more common, would probably ride better. Had the airbags right up and the hitch on the highest notch but I still kept it under fifty down the A27. Anyway, I was thinking to myself- keep it steady, I really don’t want to loose my newly acquired trailer license spaffing this lot across both lanes Then I though, possibly the most important bit for a towing test would be to explain how weight distribution, hitch height etc all work together for a smooth ride, or a death trap if you do it wrong.
And now you tell me the test never covered that? Good riddance!

 

[V8Druid]

You’re shitting me? Only this afternoon I was heading back with a a trailer full of scaffold that just wouldn’t sit right. Only around 1.8t load but too equal a distribution. It’s an Ifor beaver tail, 14’, and it always needs the load right against the headboard which wasn’t possible. A 16’, which is much more common, would probably ride better. Had the airbags right up and the hitch on the highest notch but I still kept it under fifty down the A27. Anyway, I was thinking to myself- keep it steady, I really don’t want to loose my newly acquired trailer license spaffing this lot across both lanes Then I though, possibly the most important bit for a towing test would be to explain how weight distribution, hitch height etc all work together for a smooth ride, or a death trap if you do it wrong.
And now you tell me the test never covered that? Good riddance!

was looking at your picture of that in t'other thread thinking "bet that was a ****ing handful at anything over 40-ish"

 

[Justme]

No I haven't taken the trailer test I didn't need to as I took a c+e instead. So I did exactly the same reverse just on a bigger scale. And therefore I know it's an absolute joke. A waste of time it doesn't even start to give you time to learn to reverse properly!!

As for respecting my opinion I couldn't care less as it's quite obvious you are spitting be your dummy out as you have lost your source of income. There is more than one forum you have that you have done this on aswell as trying to push opinions on people labelled as facts, when the fact is you require no specific training or qualifications to do trailer training and some of the things you have spouted on here quite clearly show that.
3 days training will realistically not change people's driving one jot. All you do is teach them how to pass a test! Just about every person on the road has past a test but the standard of driving is terrible. I've spent enough time sitting watching from a lorry cab to say that attaching a trailer makes not a jot of difference to how bad people drive and again 3 days trading and a test is not going to improve it. As Ive said I agree with having a test but in its current format it's a waste of time purely bought in to keeps us inline with Europe.

What that tells me is that your were taught to pass the reverse test & not how to reverse.
Sadly all to common a practice.
I disagree a training course can change people IF they want to be changed.
Go into training thinking you already know it all or that its just to get the ticket & then yes training wont change any thing. On the other hand if you go into it with an open mind the out come can be different.
You are right you dont have to be qualified beyond holding the licence for 3 years (just like LGV & PSV, only car training for money is regulated) to teach BE that does not mean some are not qualified

What format do you think the test should be?
They test the reversing & coupling then take you on a 50 min drive.
Covering as many different road types & conditions as possible in that time.

Is the reverse easy for someone that can reverse? Hell yes.
Is it the best reverse for a car & trailer? No, it was borrowed from the LGV test so make more sense for people needing to reverse up to a loading dock.
Does the reverse make you think about what you cant see on the blind side? Yes


The thing is so many trainers just teach what is in the test & how to pass & not what is in the full DVSA syllabus for driving.

 

[Justme]

The trailer test was and always was a ginormous waste of money and time. I'm sorry but I just don't agree that it gave any safety benifits whatsover... heres why.

1. The Rules always allowed either 3.5t + 800kg trailer or a trailer and unit combination weight of up to 3.5t.... which resulted in the Unlicensed simply buying lighter towing vehicles to pull there wobble box, or landscapers buying 3.5t vans and overloading them..... neither great for safety.
2. The test never covered the most important part of towing, which is your weight distribution and load security..

I could go on but you get my gist.

Regarding Insurers.... Sister passed her B test yesterday (Woo free B+E)..... Strangely it is cheaper to insure her outright on a Ford Ranger than to insure her on a Mini cooper.....

1, 750kg not 800kg. But yes it did encourage less than ideal combo's. That was the error allowing that to happen.
2, weight & load security was covered in the questions, ok not covered greatly so most trainers would just teach the answers & not actually cover real world use.

 

[doobin]

was looking at your picture of that in t'other thread thinking "bet that was a ****ing handful at anything over 40-ish"

I knew it as I was loading it, but no other way to do it. Hire firm couldn’t get a lorry to us this side of Christmas, and it saved a long trek up a steep drive also so win win.

 

[Smiffy]

What that tells me is that your were taught to pass the reverse test & not how to reverse.
Sadly all to common a practice.
I disagree a training course can change people IF they want to be changed.
Go into training thinking you already know it all or that its just to get the ticket & then yes training wont change any thing. On the other hand if you go into it with an open mind the out come can be different.
You are right you dont have to be qualified beyond holding the licence for 3 years (just like LGV & PSV, only car training for money is regulated) to teach BE that does not mean some are not qualified

What format do you think the test should be?
They test the reversing & coupling then take you on a 50 min drive.
Covering as many different road types & conditions as possible in that time.

Is the reverse easy for someone that can reverse? Hell yes.
Is it the best reverse for a car & trailer? No, it was borrowed from the LGV test so make more sense for people needing to reverse up to a loading dock.
Does the reverse make you think about what you cant see on the blind side? Yes


The thing is so many trainers just teach what is in the test & how to pass & not what is in the full DVSA syllabus for driving.

Which is all you can do in three days in reality,unless you spend 3 days sat in a yard doing nothing but reversing you won't teach someone to reverse therefore it has to be taught exactly how to do that one reverse.
When really it should atleast be more like the car test and do one of 5 different sequences. But really should be one of 20+.
That would really test for reversing but then you couldn't teach it in three days and would actually be useful which is not the aim of any government mandate.

And the vast majority of training is an arse covering exercise. I am completely open minded turning up to everyone of the tickets that I have done including hgv license training, and without fail I have been left disappointed by them! Training and certification in this is a joke tbh and trailer training is no different. As has been said it misses very vital aspects that need teaching. At the end of the day people will pass the test then continue to drive exactly the same as before you may aswell spend what little time you have with them, something completely new and relevant that might do some good

 

[Justme]

1, Which is all you can do in three days in reality,unless you spend 3 days sat in a yard doing nothing but reversing you won't teach someone to reverse therefore it has to be taught exactly how to do that one reverse.
2, When really it should atleast be more like the car test and do one of 5 different sequences. But really should be one of 20+.


3, As has been said it misses very vital aspects that need teaching.

4, At the end of the day people will pass the test then continue to drive exactly the same as before you may aswell spend what little time you have with them, something completely new and relevant that might do some good

1, Oddly I teach them the method of reversing first. What to look for, who to plan the route, how to react if things go wrong & how the unit reacts to inputs. Then apply it to the test reverse.
2, Your are right, that would make it more realistic but also increase test costs due to set up time & space needed at the test center.
3, As I said because people take short course that only cover the aspects you actually get tested on & not the full DVSA syllabus. This is driven by costs that clients are prepared to pay. Like most things you get what you pay for.
4, Whilst I did get some clients like that (its obvious during training) others comment after the course & some time later that I have changed how they look at driving not just when towing but at all times.
For instance the ones I trained to go on to ambo & police blue light courses will have to keep the standard up.

 

[V8Druid]

I knew it as I was loading it, but no other way to do it. Hire firm couldn’t get a lorry to us this side of Christmas, and it saved a long trek up a steep drive also so win win.

looks like you had a couple of road plates under the poles? I'd have put both plates right up front, plus any shorter poles, to keep the nose down .. it's the imbalance in weight, not length that'll make it snake

 

[V8Druid]

For instance the ones I trained to go on to ambo & police blue light courses will have to keep the standard up.

?????????

 

[Justme]

?????????

People planning on becoming paramedics need to pass the C1 first before applying but we also start the training to prepare them for the Blue light course & test & if needed do remedial work if they are not on track to pass the assessment to be able to do the BL test. Or for the older applicant that already has C1 we get them up to speed so they are not behind the others that have had recent driver training.
The police (especially from the Met) like some drivers to have C1 & D1 so again we train them & get them through the two tests. We also do grounding training for police that are about to go on to the Blue light course & test.
The ambo C1 & ambo BL prep is the bulk of that sort of work (but not as much as the BE stuff) the rest is not a large part of what I do & seems to come & go.
I would like to expand into that market more but BL is a closed shop & they have now changed the rules re Ambo Police & Fire driver training / testing that is also having an impact.

 

[V8Druid]

People planning on becoming paramedics need to pass the C1 first before applying but we also start the training to prepare them for the Blue light course & test & if needed do remedial work if they are not on track to pass the assessment to be able to do the BL test. Or for the older applicant that already has C1 we get them up to speed so they are not behind the others that have had recent driver training.
The police (especially from the Met) like some drivers to have C1 & D1 so again we train them & get them through the two tests. We also do grounding training for police that are about to go on to the Blue light course & test.
The ambo C1 & ambo BL prep is the bulk of that sort of work (but not as much as the BE stuff) the rest is not a large part of what I do & seems to come & go.
I would like to expand into that market more but BL is a closed shop & they have now changed the rules re Ambo Police & Fire driver training / testing that is also having an impact.

are you ex-job?

 

[Bri963]

Once you have sat in a few hundred tests & done thousands of hours sat next to people talking action to prevent death / crashes then I will respect your opinion.

And when you’ve got around a million miles under your arse, including pulling trailers loaded with livestock, which can start a trailer swaying just by moving about, or bowsers with no baffles in the tank, or any number of unbalanced indivisible items, I might listen to yours.