GazCro
Well-known member
Rollers and lawnmowers, don't forget.The question being how many folk are going to be silly enough to admit that….
B
bobthebuilder
Well-known member
Do you mean the cash jobs on red ?
GazCro
Well-known member
No. What they will do is go and sit down in fuel suppliers office and go through accounts on computer and see what everyone is buying. That will at least give them a starting point as to where to go first.
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
don't need to .....
under RDCO reg.s they will already have it all on file .....
dealers submit monthly records of sales and to who ...
computer crunches the numbers and HMRC know exactly what you use monthly ....
only way that you'll be under the radar is if you buy less than 100lt at a time then no specific records are kept ..
goes down as a cash sale with no need for details to be logged ...
I used to be a Registered Dealer in Controlled Oils ....
5hrs a month doing returns to HMRC ...
was a PITFA......
200 quid fine for **** ups or being late
Lancs Lad
Well-known member
Lets see what happens to the pumps then?don't need to .....
under RDCO reg.s they will already have it all on file .....
dealers submit monthly records of sales and to who ...
computer crunches the numbers and HMRC know exactly what you use monthly ....
only way that you'll be under the radar is if you buy less than 100lt at a time then no specific records are kept ..
goes down as a cash sale with no need for details to be logged ...
I used to be a Registered Dealer in Controlled Oils ....
5hrs a month doing returns to HMRC ...
was a PITFA......
200 quid fine for **** ups or being late
I can get 20L etc cans no questions asked atm...no idea who I am if I don't use fuel card...
D
DaveDCB
Well-known member
So basically you’ll get away with it for a year, then you’ll have to live in fear…
D
DaveDCB
Well-known member
in reality they are going to hit the guys who buy 20k a month in red and continue to do so, but the only way that will happen is though a bent fuel supplier, so it won’t be so easy! I even got questioned in my last fuel order as it’s nearing the deadline!
will have to order a new tank even if I don’t want too, red tank will just get marked up as Agri/forestry use only to show willing.
will have to order a new tank even if I don’t want too, red tank will just get marked up as Agri/forestry use only to show willing.
TiltyShaun
Well-known member
The returns by the supplier are monthly!! I will put the rate up and only use white. Will save me loads of time as I will be be able to fill the van and car at home so no more fuel receipts to be lost!!
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
try taking over 100 litres and see how un-challenged you are ....... if they don't ask for and get your details, inc. reg. no. and intended usage, they run the risk of being closed down, prosecuted for not abiding by the RDCO regs (£10k upwards fine) and confiscation of their premises.Lets see what happens to the pumps then?
I can get 20L etc cans no questions asked atm...no idea who I am if I don't use fuel card...
.. oh and a prison sentence ..... we're talking HMRC powers here - unlimited ..... then they'll come after you from CCTV imagery, if available ..... stick to under 100 ltrs and no records required - currently - could well change
Lancs Lad
Well-known member
Often Seen transits or even people carriers taking boot loads of 20s from the pump...try taking over 100 litres and see how un-challenged you are ....... if they don't ask for and get your details, inc. reg. no. and intended usage, they run the risk of being closed down, prosecuted for not abiding by the RDCO regs (£10k upwards fine) and confiscation of their premises.
Wondered what be like having a prang with 10x loose 20s of cherry in the back of a galaxy
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
if the seller isn't complying with the regs, they're taking a huge riskOften Seen transits or even people carriers taking boot loads of 20s from the pump...
Wondered what be like having a prang with 10x loose 20s of cherry in the back of a galaxy
local garage here used to dispense to all and sundry, with total disregard of their obligations ....
'til HMRC started taking an interest in them .....
you will not get 100 litres out of their pump now, without full compliance with the requirements, end of !!
TBH I am surprised that they got away with it for soooo loooooooooong.
My record keeping was meticulous ....
got expensive if it wasn't
....and a whole world of grief ........
did however massively slash sales, by probably 50-60%, once the word got around, 'til the usual suspects realised the 100ltr limit and just came in more frequently
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
painful'd be my guess ... both during the shunt and after plod, etc.'d finished prosecutingOften Seen transits or even people carriers taking boot loads of 20s from the pump...
Wondered what be like having a prang with 10x loose 20s of cherry in the back of a galaxy
used to get 'em turn up at my yard .... "fill 'em up please" .... "certainly, just come with me to the office to provide all your particulars, or will 100ltrs be sufficient?
"
Thomas Poole
New member
This might have been mentioned in the other 20+ pages but, why couldn’t the government just keep red for agri/rail/forestry use and say purple for construction? It’s obviously going to happen so to try and limit theft from site, machines etc or just don’t be dickheads and carry on as we are! I understand the government will make more from limiting red useage
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
nothing to stop folk from dyeing it themselves .... could used to get blue dye on Ebay (which visually masked the red but it still showed up in HMRC's dye testing kit) ... I used to have to stop ppl putting it in their cans, 'fore getting filled ... did not want to be complicit to fraud.... could do WTF they liked outside my yard .... but not in it FFS !!
Knew for a fact that we used to get watched maybe once a month or so .... same bloke/vehicle parked outside sat watching the comings and goings ..... used to take him a cup of tea occasionally, when we'd sussed it
Shovelhands
Well-known member
Let’s face it, it’s all about money. There’s no other reason they are doing this than pulling in more money. Some knobhead without a clue has decided in order to get more money we must all by road fuel, thus boosting their purse, simples….
Then someone has decided that maybe a few sectors could be let off, just to be thoughtful, so some other simple numpty has created a list of things where you can still use rebated fuel legitimately. How nice of them.
If only these pen pushers put their thinking caps on and instead of insisting that those who are not eligible buy road derv, they could instead remove the rebate on red across the board and then offer those that are eligible for the rebate the chance to claim it back later. I know this wouldn’t help cash flow for some, but it would level the playing field a bit and would help solve the theft issue. It would also mean that those who maybe straddle two sectors, one that can and one that can’t use red, could carry on their daily work virtually unaffected, with only a paperwork exercise to claim their rebate on the amount used in the qualifying sector, instead of needing to run two storage tanks etc. And that’s before we get into the fiasco of machinery that needs to be on white one day and theoretically red the next!
This whole thing is a complete clusterfuck! I know the added cost of the fuel is not something to be understated, but I honestly envy those of you who can simply switch to white and forget about it or (if your really lucky) carry on as you have before! Anyone operating in mixed sectors, I feel your pain…
Then someone has decided that maybe a few sectors could be let off, just to be thoughtful, so some other simple numpty has created a list of things where you can still use rebated fuel legitimately. How nice of them.
If only these pen pushers put their thinking caps on and instead of insisting that those who are not eligible buy road derv, they could instead remove the rebate on red across the board and then offer those that are eligible for the rebate the chance to claim it back later. I know this wouldn’t help cash flow for some, but it would level the playing field a bit and would help solve the theft issue. It would also mean that those who maybe straddle two sectors, one that can and one that can’t use red, could carry on their daily work virtually unaffected, with only a paperwork exercise to claim their rebate on the amount used in the qualifying sector, instead of needing to run two storage tanks etc. And that’s before we get into the fiasco of machinery that needs to be on white one day and theoretically red the next!
This whole thing is a complete clusterfuck! I know the added cost of the fuel is not something to be understated, but I honestly envy those of you who can simply switch to white and forget about it or (if your really lucky) carry on as you have before! Anyone operating in mixed sectors, I feel your pain…
GazCro
Well-known member
I think if they can make this work it'll disappear all together in the near future. Whether to allow that to happen will need a different system like being able to claim rebate back remains to be seen.Let’s face it, it’s all about money. There’s no other reason they are doing this than pulling in more money. Some knobhead without a clue has decided in order to get more money we must all by road fuel, thus boosting their purse, simples….
Then someone has decided that maybe a few sectors could be let off, just to be thoughtful, so some other simple numpty has created a list of things where you can still use rebated fuel legitimately. How nice of them.
If only these pen pushers put their thinking caps on and instead of insisting that those who are not eligible buy road derv, they could instead remove the rebate on red across the board and then offer those that are eligible for the rebate the chance to claim it back later. I know this wouldn’t help cash flow for some, but it would level the playing field a bit and would help solve the theft issue. It would also mean that those who maybe straddle two sectors, one that can and one that can’t use red, could carry on their daily work virtually unaffected, with only a paperwork exercise to claim their rebate on the amount used in the qualifying sector, instead of needing to run two storage tanks etc. And that’s before we get into the fiasco of machinery that needs to be on white one day and theoretically red the next!
This whole thing is a complete clusterfuck! I know the added cost of the fuel is not something to be understated, but I honestly envy those of you who can simply switch to white and forget about it or (if your really lucky) carry on as you have before! Anyone operating in mixed sectors, I feel your pain…
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Let’s face it, it’s all about money. There’s no other reason they are doing this than pulling in more money. Some knobhead without a clue has decided in order to get more money we must all by road fuel, thus boosting their purse, simples….
Then someone has decided that maybe a few sectors could be let off, just to be thoughtful, so some other simple numpty has created a list of things where you can still use rebated fuel legitimately. How nice of them.
If only these pen pushers put their thinking caps on and instead of insisting that those who are not eligible buy road derv, they could instead remove the rebate on red across the board and then offer those that are eligible for the rebate the chance to claim it back later. I know this wouldn’t help cash flow for some, but it would level the playing field a bit and would help solve the theft issue. It would also mean that those who maybe straddle two sectors, one that can and one that can’t use red, could carry on their daily work virtually unaffected, with only a paperwork exercise to claim their rebate on the amount used in the qualifying sector, instead of needing to run two storage tanks etc. And that’s before we get into the fiasco of machinery that needs to be on white one day and theoretically red the next!
This whole thing is a complete clusterfuck! I know the added cost of the fuel is not something to be understated, but I honestly envy those of you who can simply switch to white and forget about it or (if your really lucky) carry on as you have before! Anyone operating in mixed sectors, I feel your pain…
spot on guys ..... just one big claw back exercise ... if you qualify - reclaim, simples and if caught out fiddling you lose your exemption permanently, ad infinitum ....... would make a lot think very VERY hard
Thomas Poole
New member
The government calling road fuel just puts it out there parked up plant will have White diesel in themLet’s face it, it’s all about money. There’s no other reason they are doing this than pulling in more money. Some knobhead without a clue has decided in order to get more money we must all by road fuel, thus boosting their purse, simples….
Then someone has decided that maybe a few sectors could be let off, just to be thoughtful, so some other simple numpty has created a list of things where you can still use rebated fuel legitimately. How nice of them.
If only these pen pushers put their thinking caps on and instead of insisting that those who are not eligible buy road derv, they could instead remove the rebate on red across the board and then offer those that are eligible for the rebate the chance to claim it back later. I know this wouldn’t help cash flow for some, but it would level the playing field a bit and would help solve the theft issue. It would also mean that those who maybe straddle two sectors, one that can and one that can’t use red, could carry on their daily work virtually unaffected, with only a paperwork exercise to claim their rebate on the amount used in the qualifying sector, instead of needing to run two storage tanks etc. And that’s before we get into the fiasco of machinery that needs to be on white one day and theoretically red the next!
This whole thing is a complete clusterfuck! I know the added cost of the fuel is not something to be understated, but I honestly envy those of you who can simply switch to white and forget about it or (if your really lucky) carry on as you have before! Anyone operating in mixed sectors, I feel your pain…
JD450A
Feral as Fk 🐾
Of course it does raise a interesting question about the legality of using works trucks to haul materials long distanceThe government calling road fuel just puts it out there parked up plant will have White diesel in them
Vinpetrol
Well-known member
try taking over 100 litres and see how un-challenged you are ....... if they don't ask for and get your details, inc. reg. no. and intended usage, they run the risk of being closed down, prosecuted for not abiding by the RDCO regs (£10k upwards fine) and confiscation of their premises.
My local garage is Esso it’s where my fuel account for vans is held . They are one of the only garages supplying red diesel from a pump (extortionately priced) I recently ran out of red at home so I filled my 200litre adt tank in the van . They asked lots of questions about my usage and whereabouts. I was a bit taken aback as they know me . The lass said they have to take details of people buying over 100litres of red
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