New Defender

B

Brendan

Well-known member
Land rover were just lucky there was never a direct rival to the defender. Just think when Toyota took over Daihatsu if the put landcruiser running gear and 3.0 engine in a fourtrak. Missed opportunity for them but they clearly couldn't see any business sense doing it.
Why would they need to the fourtrak was already able to tow 3.5t and that included the shortwheel base, they just weren't that good, parts more expensive and small they just didn't sell in big numbers the same as the terrano/maverick or the frontera those vehicles were probably just ahead of the curve for a more comfy 4x4/utility vehicle at a time where no one wanted that sort of spec as farm spec was all they needed/desired.
Landrovers biggest appeal for the defender was the fact it hardly changed, if you had an old one you could easily get spares and upgrading to newer parts was simple.
Personally hated the defender, just a terrible vehicle all road from a driving point but to be fair, for towing and off-road it was excellent
 
GazCro

GazCro

Well-known member
You are probably right. Until recently no other pickup was allowed to tow 3500kg.
And a defender never had the power for it either. I can remember a couple of years back a local farmer with a 110 asking me what the hilux pulled like with 2t digger behind it. Look on his face when i told him how fast it went up a local hill was a treat turned out his defender with similar weight on it could only achieve half as fast.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
I've had Ser. I, II & III and defenders, short and LWB ... and as tow barges all performed very, very well but for distance travel, they were all horrendous .. SII is probably my favorite all told out of the LRs and the old historic classic RRs were pretty damned good too ... simple and when sorted thoroughly .. bloody good trucks
 
Grahams

Grahams

Don't complain - suggest what's better
And a defender never had the power for it either. I can remember a couple of years back a local farmer with a 110 asking me what the hilux pulled like with 2t digger behind it. Look on his face when i told him how fast it went up a local hill was a treat turned out his defender with similar weight on it could only achieve half as fast.
I totally agree. I can only think there was some political agreement to keep everyone else out of the market to subsidise Landrover and keep jobs.
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Well-known member
I totally agree. I can only think there was some political agreement to keep everyone else out of the market to subsidise Landrover and keep jobs.
That has to be true - why have Toyota never sold their 70 series trucks in the uk? They are available around the world in rhd and would have taken all of the Defender sales without a doubt.
 
craig

craig

Well-known member
Why would they need to the fourtrak was already able to tow 3.5t and that included the shortwheel base, they just weren't that good, parts more expensive and small they just didn't sell in big numbers the same as the terrano/maverick or the frontera those vehicles were probably just ahead of the curve for a more comfy 4x4/utility vehicle at a time where no one wanted that sort of spec as farm spec was all they needed/desired.
Landrovers biggest appeal for the defender was the fact it hardly changed, if you had an old one you could easily get spares and upgrading to newer parts was simple.
Personally hated the defender, just a terrible vehicle all road from a driving point but to be fair, for towing and off-road it was excellent
Got to disagree with you on that, the one I had was the best vehicle I`ve had, and my dad would say the same about the ones he had, parts wise I found them reasonable enough, not that we needed many, service kits cheap as chips from milner off road.
Mine did every thing I ever asked of it, towing dragging, pulling, carrying, off roading, and used as a car.
 
Lancs Lad

Lancs Lad

Well-known member
Uh oh this old chestnut...we could be here a while on this debate....I had it from the horse's mouth a while back...a certain employee of said JLR told me "why bother making a 30k car that gives you load of grief and aggro when you sell twice as many 70k cars" summed it up for me. What I will say having been in the new defender personally ...detach yourself from what it was and what you expected...it's quite a damn interesting car nowt else like it really. Is it expensive ? Yes bloody🙄.. is it a workhorse? In reality not at the moment. But let's see I've a feeling it could turn it something quite different... remember the aggro over the disco reincarnations? Now folk swear by em..
 
R

Russell

Well-known member
I thought the newer Discovery's were supposed to be no good, electric hand brakes and dodgy gearboxes? My disco 2 is definitely a pile of wank compared to my old similarly aged shogun.
 
B

Brendan

Well-known member
I know a couple of guys with the newest shape discovery one from new and zero issues the other a year or so old and in typical Landrover fashion he had it a couple of weeks and they had it for a week to sort some issues
 
Quattromike

Quattromike

Well member-known
I know a couple of guys with the newest shape discovery one from new and zero issues the other a year or so old and in typical Landrover fashion he had it a couple of weeks and they had it for a week to sort some issues
I had considered one of the new discos as they became available second hand but the price was way up there. I changed my interest onto looking at a top spec Q7 as I thought you’d get better bang for your buck but the used new disco prices have dropped a fair bit this last month, to the tune of around 20% 😯it’s scary. When the car sales start moving again there might be a few surprises
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk 🐾
Landrover have already lost the systems vehicle (Truck with a cab and no arse) market to Izuzu..... they won't be getting it back either.
 
TiltyShaun

TiltyShaun

Well-known member
Landrover have already lost the systems vehicle (Truck with a cab and no arse) market to Izuzu..... they won't be getting it back either.
The sad fact is they don’t want it. Wait and see what the Ineos guy comes up with. Back to basic ladder frame chassis, bare essentials engine management and hopefully wind up windows!!
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk 🐾
The sad fact is they don’t want it. Wait and see what the Ineos guy comes up with. Back to basic ladder frame chassis, bare essentials engine management and hopefully wind up windows!!
Trouble is the market is gone.

The linesmen like the Izuzu's. Far more comfortable than the Landys, had payload issues to begin with but that's been sorted with heavier front axles. And there on par costwise with the old defenders.
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
I've had landrovers for years, restored them, competed off road in them, got lost in them, broken down in them, fixed them with string, towed stuck loaded lorries out of the mud with them and even driven round Europe in them (I was younger back then!) I love them, its my ultimate car, my poster car if you will. And I was lucky to be able to drive my ultimate car in my 20's - most people don't even get to own their ultimate car and maybe I should have bigger aspirations but I'm quite happy. When the going gets tough, there is no other car I'd rather be in. And yes, they have 100's of shortcomings but there is always someone local to wherever you are in the world who knows how to fix it. Parts are cheap and plentiful and there's many that cross over from previous models all the way back to the 60's. They have been honed to perfection for their task over 60+ years and providing you don't modify them, (which most do and it always makes them worse) they do it well.
Unfortunately they were made in the UK and through a time when unions had control and quality was not top of the agenda. And personally I think that's always, and still remains to a certain extent, the problem with Land Rover as a brand. If the Jap's had made it, think how much of a weapon it would have been. But then it would have evolved past where it did and ended up as it is now, far faster.

Land Rover had a problem. The old Defender was still largely hand built (very rare in this day and age) and whilst it sold consistently, it was never top of the charts for sales. And as a car company - that's the aim of the game. Land Rovers now sell to footballers, Directors, private school mums and other wealthy individuals. They don't want our type walking in the posh showroom with muddy boots buying their utility vehicle. But they also cant ditch the Defender all together, its what made them. So what do you do, you make something that sells to your largest target market. I had hoped they would make the Defender a pickup competitor but alas, its become a lesser Discovery. Its an interesting car, plenty of throwback features and design cues and I have no doubt it will go off road as well as the model it replaces. It has to. Its not designed for us and its not priced for us. As Rory says, now the pickups can tow 3.5t, Land Rover have lost their market.

I'll be keeping my 1997 300tdi Defender 90 thanks. By the way, mine did 170k on its original clutch, towing 3.5t regularly. Original engine, turbo, chassis, gearbox, axles, diff etc. IT HAS NEVER NOT GOT ME HOME. (Even when the steering arm fell off, I manged to zip tie and BT rope it back together to get me home). It does 30mpg+ if you drive it sensibly and has gone further off road than any other car bar a Jimney (those things are like mountain goats!) If you look after them, they will do extremely good service. Whats not to like about that?

But just so you know - I now drive a Nissan Navara daily. Lovely to drive, goes off road ok (I do have proper wellies on it mind) doesn't tow as well as the Defender and there is no way it will still be standing strong after 22 years - its drivetrain just isn't beefy enough. But it will do me 5 years good service, all covered by warranty and is a nice place to be driving to and from sites. The Defender is on my driveway, appreciating in value and ready to step in if the Navara breaks down (which it has once so far in a year). If it came to it, I would sell the Navara and keep the Defender. But when it comes to replacing the Navara, I wont be getting a new Defender. It will be another pickup.
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Well-known member
I've had landrovers for years, restored them, competed off road in them, got lost in them, broken down in them, fixed them with string, towed stuck loaded lorries out of the mud with them and even driven round Europe in them (I was younger back then!) I love them, its my ultimate car, my poster car if you will. And I was lucky to be able to drive my ultimate car in my 20's - most people don't even get to own their ultimate car and maybe I should have bigger aspirations but I'm quite happy. When the going gets tough, there is no other car I'd rather be in. And yes, they have 100's of shortcomings but there is always someone local to wherever you are in the world who knows how to fix it. Parts are cheap and plentiful and there's many that cross over from previous models all the way back to the 60's. They have been honed to perfection for their task over 60+ years and providing you don't modify them, (which most do and it always makes them worse) they do it well.
Unfortunately they were made in the UK and through a time when unions had control and quality was not top of the agenda. And personally I think that's always, and still remains to a certain extent, the problem with Land Rover as a brand. If the Jap's had made it, think how much of a weapon it would have been. But then it would have evolved past where it did and ended up as it is now, far faster.

Land Rover had a problem. The old Defender was still largely hand built (very rare in this day and age) and whilst it sold consistently, it was never top of the charts for sales. And as a car company - that's the aim of the game. Land Rovers now sell to footballers, Directors, private school mums and other wealthy individuals. They don't want our type walking in the posh showroom with muddy boots buying their utility vehicle. But they also cant ditch the Defender all together, its what made them. So what do you do, you make something that sells to your largest target market. I had hoped they would make the Defender a pickup competitor but alas, its become a lesser Discovery. Its an interesting car, plenty of throwback features and design cues and I have no doubt it will go off road as well as the model it replaces. It has to. Its not designed for us and its not priced for us. As Rory says, now the pickups can tow 3.5t, Land Rover have lost their market.

I'll be keeping my 1997 300tdi Defender 90 thanks. By the way, mine did 170k on its original clutch, towing 3.5t regularly. Original engine, turbo, chassis, gearbox, axles, diff etc. IT HAS NEVER NOT GOT ME HOME. (Even when the steering arm fell off, I manged to zip tie and BT rope it back together to get me home). It does 30mpg+ if you drive it sensibly and has gone further off road than any other car bar a Jimney (those things are like mountain goats!) If you look after them, they will do extremely good service. Whats not to like about that?

But just so you know - I now drive a Nissan Navara daily. Lovely to drive, goes off road ok (I do have proper wellies on it mind) doesn't tow as well as the Defender and there is no way it will still be standing strong after 22 years - its drivetrain just isn't beefy enough. But it will do me 5 years good service, all covered by warranty and is a nice place to be driving to and from sites. The Defender is on my driveway, appreciating in value and ready to step in if the Navara breaks down (which it has once so far in a year). If it came to it, I would sell the Navara and keep the Defender. But when it comes to replacing the Navara, I wont be getting a new Defender. It will be another pickup.
I agree with everything you have said here and pretty much mirror your position throughout - I’ve got 3 Land Rovers which I’ll probably never sell (300 Tdi hicap, Puma 110 and a lightweight) and use a Navara as my daily driver. The Navara is a superior tow vehicle though IMO, with the exception of not being able to get moving off the line or reversing in low range.
 
doobin

doobin

Well-known member
The sad fact is they don’t want it. Wait and see what the Ineos guy comes up with. Back to basic ladder frame chassis, bare essentials engine management and hopefully wind up windows!!
At 30-40k (which is the predicted price) it's no more an attractive proposition than the new Defender.
 
TiltyShaun

TiltyShaun

Well-known member
At 30-40k (which is the predicted price) it's no more an attractive proposition than the new Defender.
I think the body builders will be interested. As Rory has pointed Isuzu have sneaked into the utilities market. So I am just eager to see what fresh eyes brings to the party.
Ollie has also hit the nail on the head, landrover are not after the rich farmer any more. Better pickings in the well off list!!
As for defenders, you guys have all been blinkered, I have my little collection.
I give you the discovery 1 300tdi auto!! Best landrover engine ever mated to an auto. I like it so much as it can tow 3500kg, like a defender. With the same boots can go pretty much anywhere you can take your defender 110. But do so in much more comfort. I have stripped the rear seats out of mine to make it more van like.
For the farm, I don’t have a pick up. I have a Range Rover classic 300tdi auto. With no rear seats and can get 8 small hay bales up to our top field.
 
F

fred

Well-known member
i really rated my disco3 commercial. Such comfort for doing the miles and towed better than the iveco. Was ok on the reliability front but I use a local mechanic anyway for all our kit so keep on top of everything. When it came time to chop in they wanted silly money for the disco4 commercial and it looks terrible from the back so went for a pickup and an M sports bmw instead.....
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Well-known member
I think the body builders will be interested. As Rory has pointed Isuzu have sneaked into the utilities market. So I am just eager to see what fresh eyes brings to the party.
Ollie has also hit the nail on the head, landrover are not after the rich farmer any more. Better pickings in the well off list!!
As for defenders, you guys have all been blinkered, I have my little collection.
I give you the discovery 1 300tdi auto!! Best landrover engine ever mated to an auto. I like it so much as it can tow 3500kg, like a defender. With the same boots can go pretty much anywhere you can take your defender 110. But do so in much more comfort. I have stripped the rear seats out of mine to make it more van like.
For the farm, I don’t have a pick up. I have a Range Rover classic 300tdi auto. With no rear seats and can get 8 small hay bales up to our top field.
We also had a 300tdi auto disco - was a great bus to be fair, really nice thing to drive. Really thirsty (but that wasn’t helped by the fact it could sit comfortably at 90mph plus on the motorway)....
 
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