Lincoln Welder - a little help needed

[Gecko]

and should be no air in the top of filter housing

When I saw it, I guessed it was an attempt at self-bleeding.

Presumably there is (should be) a spring-loaded non-return/relief valve somewhere in the system to keep the injector pump fed?

 

[V8Druid]

When I saw it, I guessed it was an attempt at self-bleeding.

Presumably there is (should be) a spring-loaded non-return/relief valve somewhere in the system to keep the injector pump fed?

from memory ... the 6354 in my Iron fairy had a similar set up...can't recall any valve, but it would make sense to stop any drain down/run back from the spill pipes to tank when idle ... left for any period of time it'd have to be wound over a bit before it'd fire up ..... ditto the Rapier .... another 6354 with similar set up ... both had a flame thrower heater plug in the inlet manifolds fed from the filter housing

 

[V8Druid]

be right back - I'll check.
.
.
Yep, it has a small hole
View attachment 57321

It's sunday night here, so I decided to drill the bolt (with a cordless). Longitudinal hole went fine, but snapped the bit doing the cross-drill

if that's the case there will need to be some sort of one way between it and the tank return or the line will drain down and introduce air into the system at some point .... injector spills need a gravity drain

 

[Bri963]

View attachment 57314
I'm trying to decide if this is intentional or not - the thread (inside the banjo) would allow the injectors to drain back to the tank, but why use a banjo fitting rather than straight back to the tank? Anyone seen this setup?

That engine certainly never went out of the factory like that. For one thing the bolt is either UNC or metric Coarse, and the thread in the head is a much finer thread - I’ll have a look at one at work tomorrow. That’s a bodge.

 

[Gecko]

Thanks!
Yep - the bolt is M12.
I can't understand what problem they were trying to solve.

to quote myself above:

..ask the owner what they'd done to try to fix the problem (so I knew what "else" was wrong..

 

[Bri963]

Thanks!
Yep - the bolt is M12.
I can't understand what problem they were trying to solve.

to quote myself above:

I’m afraid they may have caused another one. Can’t remember the thread but pretty sure it was a 7/16”, you’ll need to find a new filter head which shouldn’t be too difficult.

 

[V8Druid]

I’m afraid they may have caused another one. Can’t remember the thread but pretty sure it was a 7/16”, you’ll need to find a new filter head which shouldn’t be too difficult.

I’m afraid they may have caused another one. Can’t remember the thread but pretty sure it was a 7/16”, you’ll need to find a new filter head which shouldn’t be too difficult.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16555668...JVRNUeIcaV+MlfDSM1vHALfuc=|tkp:Bk9SR_TVnemuYw

Genuine Cummins Banjo Connector Screw
Attaches Fuel Filter Plumbing to the Cylinder Head
Part number 3905860
Dimensions:
Thread Size M12 x 1.5mm
Length under cap 24mm
Length including cap 33.75mm

with built in bleed screw

and complete

LUCAS CAV296 FUEL FILTER HEAD 1/2 UNF PORTS COMES WITH BLANKS BLEED SCREW | eBay UK

CAV296 DIESEL FILTER HEAD. 1/2 UNF PORTS. BLANKS X 2. Fuel Fittings.

www.ebay.co.uk

LUCAS CAV296 FUEL FILTER HEAD 14MM PORTS | eBay UK

CAV296 DIESEL FILTER HEAD. 14MM BLANKS X 2. Fuel Fittings. Our areas of expertise for over 25 years.

www.ebay.co.uk

Fuel Filter Head Housing 1/2" UNF for Massey Ferguson Ford International Tractor | eBay

Massey Ferguson. Ford / New Holland. Case International IH. Part Number: 19313. Centre of Fixing Hole Size: 70mm.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Gecko]

I’m afraid they may have caused another one. Can’t remember the thread but pretty sure it was a 7/16”, you’ll need to find a new filter head which shouldn’t be too difficult.

At least it is available and on the outside of the engine!
(1/2" ports on this one)

This is the setup on an MF135 with what appears to be the pressure relief/non-return valve needed to make sure the injection pump is properly fed

 

[Bri963]

I think that’s just a non return valve in the picture, see if you can find out if your engine needs one. I was going to suggest you wouldn’t need one with a raised tank but Masseys obviously did. Makes sense it’s a 1/2” as they’d have had a job bullying an M12 into a 7/16” port.

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

Ok, I've finally got my hands on this beast and seen it for the first time - wow, it's rough!
The engine looks pristine - except it doesn't run .
The housing on the other hand looks like it fell off the back of a truck several times (it's not pretty).

The story is the previous owner bought in "not running", tried to get it going - failed, ignored it a couple of years and sold it (to me).
So far, I've moved the alternator output to the solenoid terminal, so it can actually do something useful.
Then I started at the lift pump - cleaned the debris from inside, but noted nothing on the screen.
Replaced the '296 filter (the old one looked virgin inside), bled it from the lift pump, filter, thermostart and the injector pump (input screen, two bleeds and the return) - all seemed fine, but no flow on the injector lines while cranking.

Starting to wonder if the fuel cutout can stick inside the pump?
One thing is that someone in it's history seems to have had an O-ring fetish, so many of the olive seals have had O-rings added in-front of the olive. When I tried to put the lines back together without the o-rings, I found that the flare-nuts bottom before compressing the olive.

In this pic, I assumed the "Bolt" to be "banjo bolt"
View attachment 57312


... apparently not
View attachment 57314
I'm trying to decide if this is intentional or not - the thread (inside the banjo) would allow the injectors to drain back to the tank, but why use a banjo fitting rather than straight back to the tank? Anyone seen this setup?

It’s so it relieves air from anywhere that needs it!

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

At least it is available and on the outside of the engine!
(1/2" ports on this one)

This is the setup on an MF135 with what appears to be the pressure relief/non-return valve needed to make sure the injection pump is properly fed
View attachment 57354

Is that an original pink glass bottom filter

 

[Gecko]

I finished the cross-drill from the other side and punched out the broken stub.
The lift pump feels very different as it no longer builds pressure, but returns to the tank (as expected).
Gone through it bleeding everything - frothy slowly gives way to clear fuel at each joint.
But still no flow at the HP ports of the injector pump

 

[V8Druid]

I finished the cross-drill from the other side and punched out the broken stub.
The lift pump feels very different as it no longer builds pressure, but returns to the tank (as expected).
Gone through it bleeding everything - frothy slowly gives way to clear fuel at each joint.
But still no flow at the HP ports of the injector pump

there won't be by hand ... needs to be turned over to generate pressure at the injector lines.. slack off at injectors and crank once everything else is bled through .. close off each line as it fills and should start, in all likelihood

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

As long as you are careful, you can loosen injector pipes at pump end, turn over the engine until fuel comes out of pump, if it doesn’t you have a fuel stop valve issue!

 

[Gecko]

there won't be by hand ...

As long as you are careful, you can loosen injector pipes at pump end, turn over the engine until fuel comes out of pump,

Sorry - didn't explain that clearly.
Bled all the points using the lift pump, then loosened off one of the banjo bolts on the injector lines at the injector pump - and cranked (and cranked, and cranked....) - nothing.

For obvious reasons, I'd prefer not to strip the pump, but ordered a gasket kit (surprisingly cheap) just in case.

 

[V8Druid]

Sorry - didn't explain that clearly.
Bled all the points using the lift pump, then loosened off the banjo bolts on the injector lines at the injector pump - and cranked (and cranked, and cranked....) - nothing.

stop most likely stuck then .. assume it's a rotary pump?

 

[Gecko]

stop most likely stuck then .. assume it's a rotary pump?

That would certainly match the symptoms.
Yes it's a CAV DPA pump

I checked the paint at the cover gasket and the cover has been off since the last coat of paint - suggesting is may not have been put together correctly.
I'll have a look inside after some 'tube tutorials.

 

[Gecko]

Perhaps I have misunderstood the function of the water separator, but I feel it's NQR when I remove the injector pumps side cover and see 1/4" water in the bottom?

 

[Bri963]

Oh dear. Is there much rust inside?

 

[Gecko]

No!
Just a rusty coloured film on the horizontal surfaces, but it just wiped off.
No visible damage with the top and side covers off.