Leyland 680

[Mason]

Hello all,
I am new to this forum and in need of some help. I have a Aveling Barford 140 with a Leyland 680 engine.
It is blowing into the water jacket. I bought it in October with a stuck engine, when I got it freed off and running
it was a bit heady so I pulled the heads off and got the valves and seats re-cut and put in new valve guides.
I also had them crack tested, all was good. I also replaced a liner with a crack in it with a new piston and liner.
When I got it back in one piece I put it to work on the mole plough but it started blowing into the water as soon as it got up to working temperature.
It was nothing horrendous, I could work it for half an hour or so be for I needed to top up with water. So I persevered to get the field done and then I parked it up. Before Christmas I stripped it again, this time I pulled out all the liners and checked for cracks and had the heads crack tested again (pressure tested).
Again all good and I checked the block with a strait edge. All looks good so now I have it back together again and it is just the same blowing into the water.
I am scratching my head, I can not think of any thing that I have missed. Do any of you have any ideas?

 

[Vinpetrol]

Hello all,
I am new to this forum and in need of some help. I have a Aveling Barford 140 with a Leyland 680 engine.
It is blowing into the water jacket. I bought it in October with a stuck engine, when I got it freed off and running
it was a bit heady so I pulled the heads off and got the valves and seats re-cut and put in new valve guides.
I also had them crack tested, all was good. I also replaced a liner with a crack in it with a new piston and liner.
When I got it back in one piece I put it to work on the mole plough but it started blowing into the water as soon as it got up to working temperature.
It was nothing horrendous, I could work it for half an hour or so be for I needed to top up with water. So I persevered to get the field done and then I parked it up. Before Christmas I stripped it again, this time I pulled out all the liners and checked for cracks and had the heads crack tested again (pressure tested).
Again all good and I checked the block with a strait edge. All looks good so now I have it back together again and it is just the same blowing into the water.
I am scratching my head, I can not think of any thing that I have missed. Do any of you have any ideas?

Welcome to the forum Mason !
You’ve already checked everything I’d of done so I can’t help but there are some really experienced guys on this forum and it won’t be long before they chip in best of luck with it .
Post some pics of the machine if you have any .

 

[V8Druid]

hmm .... pretty unusual fault, considering all you've done ..... assume this isn't the flat, on its side version, as fitted to /under the back ends of buses ?

Ford had similar issues with their 6D engines and it transpired to be a porous block or liner issue.
A chemical company developed a ceramic sealer compound for Ford to attempt to cure the issue, which they did fairly successfully apparently.
Said product was later sold as irontite http://irontite.com/
I have used their flush and seal products on two occasions ..... worked VERY well if the instructions're followed to the letter

I do appreciate that yours is a wet liner though .... could possibly be the seals at the bottom of the liners? .....Irontite'll find its way into the minutest of cracks/gaps .... worth a try for the cost TBH

 

[JD450A]

Water pump.

 

[Mason]

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is the upright version and it has dry liners and I have also put a new gasket on the water pump.
Having slept on it I can only think it must be a crack in one of the heads which is opening when it gets hot, when I took the heads off for the second time the gaskets looked good and there is no sign of a leak. I am going to slacken the manifold bolts and start it up later to see if this makes any difference.

 

[V8Druid]

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is the upright version and it has dry liners and I have also put a new gasket on the water pump.
Having slept on it I can only think it must be a crack in one of the heads which is opening when it gets hot, when I took the heads off for the second time the gaskets looked good and there is no sign of a leak. I am going to slacken the manifold bolts and start it up later to see if this makes any difference.

porous bore ... the Fords were known for it ... might have an unlucky lump ...... those 680s were a good engine usually ... had a beauty in my Hydrocon

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

Sounds like she has been iced up in the past, is she actually getting hot or just building pressure when running? Porous liners is a possibility! Is the head gasket correct ?

 

[Bri963]

If you’ve had one cracked liner, I’d double check the others, as something pretty momentous has happened to crack one. Get a bore mirror, if you don’t find anything that way, get some crack detector dye and chalk spray. Clean the head face and check the inter-valve lands as well with the crack detection dye. There aren’t many potential leak paths, just liners, head gasket, cracks in head.

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

Do you have water going into the sump?

 

[V8Druid]

Do you have water going into the sump?

hasn't been mentioned Mick

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

I was going to say the backs of the liners are corroded, and piston rings cut through, water in cylinders, but if water in sump, could also be block issue.

 

[Mason]

I whose thinking about what JD450A comment on the water pump today, so I started it up this evening and let it warm up ant ill it started blowing bubbles, then I took off the fan belts and started it again and it had stopped, I am not shore what to make of this maybe a pertly collapsed rad hose or something like that, it has no water leeks and no water in the sump. Thanks for the comments Bri963 but I have pulled all the liners and had good look at them and the block bore which looked good to me I will investigate tomorrow and let you now I get on

 

[Bri963]

Sorry, when you said blowing into water, I though you meant gas blowing and pressuring the water jacket. I hope it is the water pump, be a lot cheaper to fix.

 

[JD450A]

I whose thinking about what JD450A comment on the water pump today, so I started it up this evening and let it warm up ant ill it started blowing bubbles, then I took off the fan belts and started it again and it had stopped, I am not shore what to make of this maybe a pertly collapsed rad hose or something like that, it has no water leeks and no water in the sump. Thanks for the comments Bri963 but I have pulled all the liners and had good look at them and the block bore which looked good to me I will investigate tomorrow and let you now I get on

I have seen once with a Merc 6 Pot. Water pump Impeller spinning on the shaft and preventing it from properly circulating water when it gets warm as the Impeller expands faster than the shaft. The fact you've chased a Head/crack/Combustion = Water jacket leak around the system multiple times says to me it's a simpler problem. (though there are some excellent Combustion gas detection kits available on Ebay which are well worth the cost to rule that issue out once and for all)

If the Waters not circulating and it's boiling it will simulate bubbles, when the actual reality is it's just boiling over.

 

[Mason]

Ok so I have changed the water pump checked the rad hoses and cleaned the oil cooler, and it is still the same when she gets worm it starts to bubble just a little bit at tic over, but the harder you rev the more she blows just like when you have a head gasket go.

The only thing I can think it mite be is a blocked rad as I did haft to flush the cooling system because it looked a bit iffy (I only needed to do it twice) has any body had any experiences off this?

Ps the water sacculates but it runs hot when in work but it dues not boil the water it gets blown out rather than turning to steam

 

[Bri963]

Did you check the head for flatness?

 

[V8Druid]

compression getting into water jacket somewhere ..... my money is still on a bore

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Pardon our interruption...

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

Bit of a headache but can you show us on a vid?

 

[Mason]

yes it is a head scratcher I tried to post a vid of it when I first got it going. At the beginning of this post but could not get it to load
I will try again when I have got it back together. I have lifted out the rad to get a beater look at it as I am leaning towards it been a cooling problem, because when I removed the fan belts the problem stopped if it whose an engine problem this would not make any defiance because it would still force out ether water or gas

 

[Canal Navvy]

Wild guess, is the thermostat still present ?
Remember reading somewhere that oil field tractors used to get localised boiling in the block if the stat was removed due to the coolant circulating too fast