Cost of a young lad/lass

[V8Druid]

Had a lad turn up a few weeks back looking for work as his summer farm work had come to an end,put him on my 13tonner levelling a site for a new building,put the laser on and he was absolutely spot on,he's a cracking machine driver and I asked why he didn't do more and he said he missed farm work,fair enough we've loads of machine work and farm work at the minute.

Last week he disappeared at breakfast time to go to his accountants and never returned,today he disappeared to get some cash from the bank and never returned he's basically sacked himself,feckin muppet!

very frustrating Scoff ..... good blokes take some finding

 

[Jimoz]

Was it like this 30 years ago? When I was having one day off school a week to do work experience building timber frame houses in sure boss didn't have employers liability. He didn't even have Australian equivalent of the safety card. Although was time served and knew his s**t.

Right now as a person employing subbies for genuine subbie work your just having to cough up for pub liability. Want to take on an apprentice to train up then the costs suddenly skyrocket

 

[Gunners]

When I was looking to get into this industry, I didn't have any contacts, none of my family were in the game but I knew that's what I wanted to do. Getting my school to agree was impossible - all they wanted to do was send you to college along with everyone else. Thank god for the early days of the internet I found a fairly local agricultural college, however at 16 - they wouldn't accept me on the course I wanted to do as I didn't have any "experience" and they suggested I went to normal college for a year or two - I can only assume to grow up a bit?

So off I went to college and in the holidays started a little pocket money business doing garden maintenance, initially for friends of family, then that soon expanded to friends of friends. Getting my driving licence and series 3 Landrover on the road helped that business grow no end. I didn't do great at college, too many exams for my liking and I had no interest in Uni but that's what it was geared up for. When I refused to do my application form and personal statement the college really kicked off. They actually told me I didn't have any other options if I wanted to continue my education! I finished A levels with average to low results and went back to the Agricultural college where I was finally accepted on the course - Landscape Construction.

For the course you had to do a days work experience in the industry and guess what - my own business didn't count.... So I went through the yellow pages trying to find someone who would take me on. Now bearing in mind I could drive, had the motivation to start my own little business and was enrolled on an HNC in landscaping - I couldn't find anyone to take me on - back then for £50/day. The college wernt much use, I spent too much time arguing why my gardening business wasn't good enough to qualify for the experience that by the time I realised I couldn't find anyone to take me on for a day a week, all the other guys on my course had used up all the college contacts...

I did eventually find someone, who turned out to not pay me or his staff on time, went round a couple more guys then finally found a decent contractor who taught me a lot of what I know - good and bad ways to go about a job. Worked for him when I finished my course for about 3 years until we eventually fell out about money. He didn't understand his business and his accountant was underpaying all 3 of his guys. He didn't know that but got aggressive when I kept bringing up that my wages wernt right. I moved on and two weeks later got a large cheque to make up for the difference, god knows how much he owed the other two guys earning more than me and had been there longer! Of the 15 or so people on my course, I keep in touch with a few, most either still work for their dads firms, large estates or private gardens the others arent in the industry at all. Only 2 of us went and started a business on our own and I did some work for him last week funnily enough.

My point is I found it incredibly hard to get into a tradesman career, schools, college's, they all get paid to send students to higher education. Its how they are scored on their inspections and every student who follows that route makes the college or school money in grants. I didn't know that at the time but its also the reason they never want to kick people off the course - kick them off and loose money - they are a business after all, even if not run for "profit" its run for decent wages for all involved. Our attitude as a country needs to change towards how we view tradesmen. I was on holiday in Canada last month and if you are a tradesman over there its seen as a really decent career, pay is good and they are respected - people even wave to the roadworkers when driving past! There are plenty of people going to uni who don't really want to go but cant see another avenue. The CITB are trying to address this but its a drop in the ocean as the system is only pointing in one direction.

I admire you guys trying to get an apprentice on board, its expensive, slows you down and is hard work. I believe there are grants available from the CITB but you may have to pay into their scheme to get anything back - I know its compulsory for bigger contractors. The reality is, if we do nothing then pay will increase for those of us who can use our hands but eventually we will die out and be replaced by foreign nationals who appreciate the value of having a trade.

 

[V8Druid]

I have said for years, that a time will come when, skilled people will eventually be valued, the way they should be.
Anyone capable of 'doing' will become worth more than any pen pushers, accountants, solicitors, etc., as we are a dying breed, with few coming along behind us, for which there will always be a demand, for the skills available.
Sadly some of us may not live to see this time ...... but it WILL come, for sure.

Never ceases to amaze me how so many people go through life, unable to do the most basic of things for themselves, reliant instead on paying others to do these for them.
Changing a plug (supposedly now illegal to do oneself) , change a tap washer , hang a picture, or a shelf, change a wheel on their car, all sorts of mundanities that those of us with the skills to do so, take for granted, daily. yet others have to pay for, to be done, for them.

the 'do-ers' get thinner on the ground, daily

 

[Rob 210]

I once had a bit of a run in with a customer,with a dig about the cost of excavators,and in his words how much they cost to hire!
I then informed him that his pumber was costing him around £45 an hour,with a digger at £32per hour.
For his £32 he got a digger,fuel,wear and tear,insurance and a operator,all for that price
For his £45 he got a man with a van,and experience,but thats all.Pipes,rads,fittings and all consumeables where extra,plus the trip 1st thing every morning to local builders merchant to get bits and tea+BACON ROLL he was paying for
I then told him to give the plumber a shovel,and both me and afore mentioned would start digging,and see who gave him best value for money
I rested my case!!!!!

 

[Nick...]

I agree ,builder I work for would complain if I put my rates up but puts up with plumber billing him £60 for a call out just to turn up.peoples attitudes really piss me of at times
Nick...

 

[Antony Holmes]

i could never work this out i suppose we could have stuck in at school
if i go out with the digger i can get say £30 per hour and get told i am on the pricey side if i go out to do a repair on an irrigation system i can get £40-50 per hour and charge for the digger and travailing never any comment about price then it is just the world we live in.
and before some one says i would be doing the repairs all the time for that money i dont mind doing an odd job but i dont want to do it all the time.

 

[V8Druid]

I once had a bit of a run in with a customer,with a dig about the cost of excavators,and in his words how much they cost to hire!
I then informed him that his pumber was costing him around £45 an hour,with a digger at £32per hour.
For his £32 he got a digger,fuel,wear and tear,insurance and a operator,all for that price
For his £45 he got a man with a van,and experience,but thats all.Pipes,rads,fittings and all consumeables where extra,plus the trip 1st thing every morning to local builders merchant to get bits and tea+BACON ROLL he was paying for
I then told him to give the plumber a shovel,and both me and afore mentioned would start digging,and see who gave him best value for money
I rested my case!!!!!

I agree ,builder I work for would complain if I put my rates up but puts up with plumber billing him £60 for a call out just to turn up.peoples attitudes really piss me of at times
Nick...

i could never work this out i suppose we could have stuck in at school
if i go out with the digger i can get say £30 per hour and get told i am on the pricey side if i go out to do a repair on an irrigation system i can get £40-50 per hour and charge for the digger and travailing never any comment about price then it is just the world we live in.
and before some one says i would be doing the repairs all the time for that money i dont mind doing an odd job but i dont want to do it all the time.

and there in lies the problem ...... it's not seen as a skill ..... yet put Joe Bloggs in a machine and they'd be as clueless as if you gave them a bit of plumbing or leccy work to do. Not seen as a black art/bit of wizardry ...... they just do not see the level of skill involved in making the machine do exactly as you want it too, or 'seeing' a level, or knowing how to go about the job in the first place.

Plus.....there're far too many 'cowboys' who'll do it for **** all or nigh on, who keep the rates on the floor. ... don't see yer average plumber or leccy cutting each other's throats ..... they just all smile and take the rate - their rate, as they're always in demand and no cowboys to compete against (well, not many, anyway )

 

[diggerjones]

Chap i know who runs a gardening buisnes asked me if i could dig a footing and dig a stump out. Saturday morning with 180 i asked for £150 cash. He pulled out £100 i suppose expecting this to be my price.
Oh he says whats that an hr? I don't know you do the maths. Got £140 in the end.
I do building mainly so not arsed. I would rather be too dear in their minds, stops them asking again.

 

[diggerjones]

 

[diggerjones]

 

[Nick...]

Hire companies don’t help putting machines out for silly rates.they probably buy in bulk getting a better cost than we would and may have machines out for a high percentage of time.i know my machine like the back of my hand and carry a set of toothed and toothless buckets and a rake.most hire machines have mostly toothless buckets these days as that’s what utility companies want.ive had machines delivered then ask them to go get a set of toothed buckets so I can get on.couple hours doing nothing whilst waiting.sometimes have machines with problems so have a fitter out too and they are never delivered on time either.too many people hire a digger from a tool company because in their words,they are easy to use,and then make a f**k up.ive had calls after someone has had a machine on hire over the weekend and been asked to come and sort the garden out.not very cheap then but people mostly go on price and not what can be achieved by an experienced operator.wont ever change either
Nick...

 

[Nick...]

I stick to my rates,£30 an hour min 8 hours and if I’m too expensive I don’t do it.im putting my rates up 10% come jan too.my machine is a year old ecr25 Volvo.fuel allways going up as in insurance and everything else.jewsons for one allways put their cost up every jan so I will too
Nick...

 

[diggerjones]

Hire price I've had round here.
8t 350 week
13t 450 week
20t 600 week
All new modern kit

 

[Nick...]

That’s why us owner ops can’t compete.time you insure the machines and have public liability and add fuel it all adds up
Nick...

 

[diggerjones]

I do mainly building so my kit mainly sits on small-scale building projects for months at a time. They are all old but paid for

 

[V8Druid]

I do mainly building so my kit mainly sits on small-scale building projects for months at a time. They are all old but paid for

..... are reliable and still dig a hole as well as a new one ...... the big plus is ....they don't have to make their payments every month

 

[JD450A]

We get told £35-vat is expensive. Yet have just priced a couple hours scrub clear and dispose of at £800 and there over the moon :/

 

[Smiffy]

I think currently the construction industry is seen as a dumping ground for idiots and until that changes noone will have any respect for us i spend a lot of time in emergency road closures reopening closed roads due to storm damaged trees it takes a lot more than just being a normal tree surgeon but the way people speak to us is appalling especially when we are working hard to open the road for them

On another note i really want to gain experience in the industry
I left agriculture as it seemed dead end and started working for for a company that does a huge variety of tasks but because of this and it being a sizeable company i get stuck on the same thing rarely gaining experience

 

[pettsy]

I

Plus.....there're far too many 'cowboys' who'll do it for **** all or nigh on, who keep the rates on the floor. ... don't see yer average plumber or leccy cutting each other's throats ..... they just all smile and take the rate - their rate, as they're always in demand and no cowboys to compete against (well, not many, anyway )

Speaking as a SE plumbing and heating engineer you would be surprised it can actually be pretty cut throat. Theres plenty of cowboys who rip people off and disappear into thin air, and folk who will work for nothing. I’m very lucky to have a good customer base who value my quality work/experience. I don’t get involved with site work(fight to the bottom, thrown in rubbish) and would rather not do a job than bodge it cheaply. I’ve had people comment on my hourly rate (less than mentioned above!) who don’t see the costs upfront that need to be paid for insurances/gas safe reg/assessments/training/van/stock/tools etc. It’s very similar to running a machine I guess (albeit I haven’t got 50k plus to outlay) It’s the usual story that you will always find someone to do the job cheaper, but you have to try and aim above that and show the quality.