Buying an excavator

[deuce22]

Hi.

I’d appreciate some advice as I have never owned any plant machinery before.
I’m looking for a mini excavator between 1.5 and 3 tonne. I’ve been given some advice already, but I’m still unsure of what I should be looking for. I’ve been told by one person to stick with Japanese brands and another person to find something with low hours.
I’ve been told to steer clear of JCB as they are built with poor quality materials. Can someone with experience help me on what I need to be looking for.

Thanks.

 

[doobin]

First question- what's your budget?

 

[Regy53]

I would say it really depends what your doing with it

there is some difference between 1.5 and 3 tonne, depending if your moving it around yourself and what your moving with, width issues ? Dig depths and the like.
I would say you have been given sound advice but it does really depress me when people say stay away from jcb as actually they are pretty good and serve a purpose. You will generally pay less for one too.
Budget is important

 

[deuce22]

My budget is around 10k. Some sellers charge VAT and some don't. I'm not using it for business, so I can't claim the VAT back, I'll be using it for a self build.

It will be solely used by myself to build a few properties over the next 10 years. This first development has a lot of earth that needs shifting and so I'd get back 3k or 4k on what it would've cost me to hire. It will stay on site for the whole time (approx 3 years) and then get transported to another place. From what i've seen online the 2.5 tonne machines seem ideal. What is the biggest that could be towed by a car?

Thanks.

 

[Regy53]

You won’t really tow one with a car, a pickup or Land Rover yes.
2.5 tonne at 10 k is bottom of the pile stuff they do exist but not loads around. Many sellers who don’t charge vat will be private sellers almost all trade should charge vat. There are many people out there looking for cheap machines so if you find one be quick

 

[deuce22]

Thanks Ross.

I will be getting a pick up at some point, so it would be an option. It will be left on site initially, so I wouldn't worry about transport. A few people who have been to the plot said that I'd need an 8 tonne, but I managed to shift quite a bit with a 3 tonne that I hired. I then hired a micro digger as I needed to get into a tight spot and used it for clearing some of the site in the second half of the day. That also put a big dent in it and I was completely surprised with the power of it. I doubt I'd be buying a plot as difficult as this again, so a 1.5 tonne should probably be adequate for everything I need, it will just take longer.
I did dismiss JCB after what I was told by someone, but this may be an option for me after what you said about them. It will only be used by myself and never hired out. I'm looking at 2 JCB diggers now from a dealer.
2009 JCB 8018CTS with 900hrs and 2013 JCB 8016 CTS with 1900hrs, both around 10k.
I'm not sure which would be best, any advice?
Thanks.

 

[Regy53]

8018 has a longer dipper and track frame. Better digger for sure expecailly as it has expanding tracks.

Incidently are they cabin machines or canopy?

 

[Gunners]

I wouldn't write off JCB either. I've owned a 2001 8015 for several years now and yes I've had to put some money into it to tidy it up and maintain it but considering the work its done its been an incredibly cheap digger and is still worth what I paid for it. Parts are cheaper, decent availability of them either genuine or pattern and if you need a bucket, there's always used ones on ebay.
Kubota make probably the best mini diggers across the range in terms of reliability and resale value, however you pay a premium obviously.
Things I would be careful of knowing what I know now;
1. Buy the nicest machine you can afford. I'm not talking paintwork tidy - I mean pins and bushes etc. If its been looked after that will save you a lot of money in the long run when it comes to maintaining it. Seems obvious but there's lots on the market with fresh paint and shot pins.
2. Always see a machine before buying it - there's so many scams out there that all look too good to be true but people fall for them.
3. Drive the thing for a good 10-15 mins. if you can dig something then even better, they dont usually leak until they get hot.
4. Every manufacturer makes 3 different models of what is essentially the same machine. JCB for example do an 8014, 8016 and 8018. All look pretty much identical but the 8018 is a much better machine then the 8014 - so do your research.
5. Security - Leaving it on site will be risky, especially for such a long time. Mini diggers are very easily stolen so budget for some security features. The keys can be bought for £1 on ebay so don't assume its safe because you have the key!

There's probably a whole lot more I've forgotten but youve come to the right place and @Regy53 buys and sells these for a living so he's the expert. I would ask yourself if its really worth owning one though. How often would it be used? They are so cheap to rent these days (less than £200/week) its almost not worth the hassle of owning/ insuring one.

 

[deuce22]

8018 has a longer dipper and track frame. Better digger for sure expecailly as it has expanding tracks.

Incidently are they cabin machines or canopy?

They are both cabins.

 

[deuce22]

Thanks Gunners.

I've come across a few scammers already. I feel like a lot of the people I'm speaking with are very shady and it's difficult to actually believe them. I was thinking of going to an auction, but have been advised not to (especially as I'm not experienced). The company selling those 2 JCBs said I could use it for a few days and if there were any major issues then they'd fix it or take it back. I could then at least use it for some time and check it out.
Even though it's on my plot, I am also living on there in a static caravan, so hopefully that's a bit of a deterrent. What security features would you advise getting?
I have been going over this for a few months now to work out if it's worth buying over renting. I've got quite a bit of work to do on this development, so I will make a chunk of the cost back just from this one. I'm also thinking of the convenience as I could just use it when I needed instead of trying to get every last hour out of it over a weeks hire. It's more like £300 for a week (5 days) hire when you add drop off and pick up.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Regy53]

If you buy a 10 k digger today i would anticipate you to lose at maximum a grand a year over 4 years and if it did that I would be surprised

immediately if you bought from a dealer you will lose a bit but ride it out. I sold a 2006 dumper in 2014 for £6500. I have just resold it to export for £5500

also it’s nearly cheaper to buy at a dealer than it is a auction

 

[deuce22]

Thanks Ross.

That makes it way easier for me to decide. I could buy it now and maybe sell it on after this development and it would still be cheaper or the same cost compared with hiring. The plan is to keep it long term.
Do you sell mini excavators?

 

[Furniss]

I would agree - with all above nothing wrong with the little jcb stuff - it's good value - cheap spares - it's a bit the fashion to bash the marque, a lot of if done by people who have never even run them.
If you dont know too much about plant or have an up to speed mate to take along then I would recommend buying from a respected dealer, like Ross for instance.

 

[deuce22]

Thanks Furniss

 

[Rob65]

Are you doing the building on the project yourself also. If so is there enough space to use a 3CX type machine?

I had one for my project and it was very useful for carrying and lifting materials as well as doing the ground work. It could put pallets of stone right beside where I was working and using the back arm I lifted one tonne bags of stones up on to the scaffolding. With a bit of diy engineering it also lifted the steel beams that carry my house roof up to second floor level.

As a comparison I now have a 1.5 tonne JCB 801 and whilst it’s a good little machine for ground work it won’t do most of the other jobs the 3 CX could do.

Rob

 

[JD450A]

Forget small and transportable. Haulage is cheap and so are small machines to hire... but when you need something with grunt it's big money per week.

We Run 1.5, 2.2, 7.5t and 21t excavators of varying deprecated states 3 ton is a fare pointless size, a Pita to transport on a trailer and will lift piss all in reality.

7 tonner will do everything, lift a dumpy bag of gear, with a block grab a half pack of blocks is no bother, etc etc.

If your not going out on general contracting older is fine and will get you more machine for the money.

 

[Smiffy]

I don't think it's been mentioned but there is often a slight dip in price at the 3 to 3.5 tonne mark as that's when they cant be towed by a 4x4
This might be an advantage and work out cheaper if you are leaving on site
It also allows you to move builders bags and the like and would be easier if you ever have to load tippers

 

[deuce22]

Hi Rob.

Yes, I am doing the build myself. I have a culverted watercourse running through the site with conditions to repair parts of it. If I own a digger then I'll completely dig it up and renew it. I also have to divert another open watercourse, so there's a lot of other stuff to do apart from digging footings. I'm guessing a 3cx means 3 tonne, if so, yes this plot will accommodate a 3 tonne machine.
I've got a lot of retaining walls that need to be built and I'll be using gaboon baskets, so it will be handy for them as well. Is there a big difference between the strength of a 1.5 and 3 tonne?

 

[deuce22]

Thanks both.

I'll take a look at something a bit bigger and see what the price increase is.

 

[deuce22]

What are your views on open Vs closed cabs?