Buying a new machine

[Regy53]

Honestly this is being over complicated. You need a 10k digger to do work that a 10k digger will do. A 3 tonne would be better. I know you said earlier your a ex service man now builder but start small I wouldnt be spending the money you are spending on a machine for what you need.

Second hand would be fine as would most brands.

This isnt a endorsement of my hitachi but a example.
Buy my EX30 today for 10k. In two years I will give you back 7k if its under 7000 hours.

Thats the value you get with a good brand used machine, buying new for your needs is burning pounds and effort

 

[JD450A]

Honestly this is being over complicated. You need a 10k digger to do work that a 10k digger will do. A 3 tonne would be better. I know you said earlier your a ex service man now builder but start small I wouldnt be spending the money you are spending on a machine for what you need.

The issue is no disrespect but he is jumping into spending alot of money on something he knows very little about, and whilst doing so wants a perfect situation.

Whatever he does it will cost him, either in a higher monthly fixed cost of a new machine, or on additional breakdown costs with a second hand unit.

Whatever he does, he needs to just close his eyes and do it.... Dealers will give you the opinions they think you need to hear, and to be honest he is over-worrying with second hand equipment.

FYI a 1.5t machine could be had for around £120 a week on a long term hire from a large firm. £480 a month and off hire it at the end of the job

 

[Komatsu]

Honestly this is being over complicated. You need a 10k digger to do work that a 10k digger will do. A 3 tonne would be better. I know you said earlier your a ex service man now builder but start small I wouldnt be spending the money you are spending on a machine for what you need.

Second hand would be fine as would most brands.

This isnt a endorsement of my hitachi but a example.
Buy my EX30 today for 10k. In two years I will give you back 7k if its under 7000 hours.

Thats the value you get with a good brand used machine, buying new for your needs is burning pounds and effort

Can’t say farer than that, guaranteed buyback on a second hand machine

 

[Komatsu]

FYI a 1.5t machine could be had for around £120 a week on a long term hire from a large firm. £480 a month and off hire it at the end of the job

On Ross’s offer it’s about £125 a month

 

[JD450A]

On Ross’s offer it’s about £125 a month

Provided you don't have breakdowns.

 

[Komatsu]

Provided you don't have breakdowns.

Yeh there is that, you always get them, but don’t think it’ll £355 a month of breakdowns.

 

[Regy53]

Hey my offer is a example of residual. machine will not get loads of use, does not need a new machine ideally needs a 3 tonne machine. Diggers with 4000 hours are plenty capable and the older ones are the better ones, less fragile to fuel, less dulled down for emissions, less cost cutting.

trying to buy a 1.5 tonne with longer arms will leave you short. Worrying about warranty etc is something i wouldn't care about given what is to be done. A good brand will do you no harm, It wouldn't matter if its my machine or another from somebody else. Very rarely do we see big issues in today's world unless it started of life bad.

Its not directed to resale but the whole thing. Its going to dig a bigger, better more useful hole, for less cost, less depreciation, likely less repairs much greater ease of resale, the whole thing is massive. The 1.5 tonne on steroids are still lacking, the arms are long but buckets are small, the stability is reduced, less reach, power, dig depth etc

 

[Gunners]

Ross has a really good point here but its been fun discussing new machines

 

[Furniss]

Ross has a really good point here but its been fun discussing new machines

Yep hes going to spoil it by making it too straightforward

 

[hiluxman]

Other way round mate- Bobcat is an American company, and the machines are made in Doosan's factory in Korea. I've seen Doosan written somewhere on one of my Bo[bcat's too.

f**k, I've just realised I've got yellow fever! All my machine are Korean!

They are made in chez republic. They are bobcat machines and designed by bobcat. The smallest machine doosan made was the dx27 which is now replaced with a bobcat....as yoy say the dx27z

Bobcat and doosan are still ran as 2 different companies. Look at it more like what the cat and wacker nuson tie up was.

There is bobcat logos all over on all my doosans but the only doosan logo on the bobcat was a little paper sticker on a part somwhere.

 

[Komatsu]

Yep hes going to spoil it by making it too straightforward

....we could start selling all Ross’s stock of with guaranteed buybacks

 

[Brendan]

They are made in chez republic. They are bobcat machines and designed by bobcat. The smallest machine doosan made was the dx27 which is now replaced with a bobcat....as yoy say the dx27z

Bobcat and doosan are still ran as 2 different companies. Look at it more like what the cat and wacker nuson tie up was.

There is bobcat logos all over on all my doosans but the only doosan logo on the bobcat was a little paper sticker on a part somwhere.

On speaking to one of the reps, doosan tried to sell their own machine in America and couldn't make any head way so apparently bought bobcat. All made in the same factory except at somepoint on the line, some go left to be painted white and the others right for orange. Don't think I've seen a single part have doosan stamped in it, on my dx10z.


As for the Volvo mini diggers last time I was on a older machine it was a pain, as the boom swing was activated by a switch on the handle for either slewing the machine or the boom. I didn't like it was a nuisance to get lined up, although could see if you were in a tight spot and can't really slew the machine at least you could use it like a 180 - although to be fair not really a hardship using a pedal.

Go older and larger, your not going to be using it a great deal so is it worth double the cost for a machine to sit there that might not be big enough for your needs, plus it would have lost near enough all of its depreciation

Just because it older doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a nightmare I had my old takeuchi tb108 for around 5 years, was an excellent machine very powerful for its size (more than my dx10z)

When I sold it, it was 15 years old and in my ownership it never broke down or refused to start, I did change all the pins and bushes and the only mechanical issue I had was a tiny oil weep from the rear crank seal which was a cheap fix (although a twat to change) I did have to replace both tracks and other than self inflicted problems of catching a couple of pipes and bending a ram (sorting muck in a skip on slippy concrete and just kissed the ram to the skip )

Then on top of that I actually sold the machine for £250 +vat more than I bought it for

 

[Komatsu]

On speaking to one of the reps, doosan tried to sell their own machine in America and couldn't make any head way so apparently bought bobcat. All made in the same factory except at somepoint on the line, some go left to be painted white and the others right for orange. Don't think I've seen a single part have doosan stamped in it, on my dx10z.

JCB have done the same with there skid/tracked steers with Volvo

 

[deuce22]

So guy’s. I initially came on here for some advice and information on buying an excavator and I have received exactly that. I have got a lot more knowledge than I had 6 weeks ago. I haven’t just started out in building, I’ve already built 2 houses and quite a lot of extensions and realise the value in a digger. I’ve probably spent about 10k in the last 5/6 years on hiring them and found that I could have done with it again for a day, once it’s gone back. 90% of them were around 1.8 ton and they were more than enough for what I was using it for. Getting a 3 ton machine down the side of somebody's semi detached house and working in it in a tight back garden was nigh on impossible.
I’m buying it as a long term investment as I will be using a minimal amount of labourers (I could probably do about 30 days of work from a labourer, in a day with a digger). I actually want it on the site as and when I need it, there may be times when I use it a few hours a week here and there and times when it’s every day, all day. This project is going to take me about 3 years, so long term hiring would be out of the question. It will be used from the start, right up until I start landscaping and laying the drive (at the end).
I’ve now worked out that it’s better to hire a bigger machine at the start and then I can get away with a smaller one for the rest of the project. There are a few jobs where the 3 tonner would be to big to get in between trees where I need to dig. I've priced up some used Kubota DX018s and they only seem to have lost a few grand over 4 years with around 1200hrs. If I decided to sell after this project, I would be happy with that as I'd still be in front.
I was interested in your machine originally Ross, but then was concerned due to it having almost 5000hrs on it. I appreciate the offer of the buyback, but I haven’t got any mechanical experience and nobody can guarantee that nothing is going to go wrong with it whilst I’m using it.
Not having to worry about it for the next 3 or 5 years due to the warranty is a major thing for me and having it from new is worth the extra cost as well.
I appreciate everybody’s feedback and advice. I realise that we’ve all got our own opinions and that is good for me, as I can make an informed decision. If people are getting pissed off by the questions I am asking, then I don’t know what to say. I thought the whole point of a forum is for people to discuss and debate and pass on knowledge and experience.
Thanks.

 

[Regy53]

Nobody is getting pissed of its just hard to be in your shoes. My buy back is a example really I really wasn't trying to push you into my machine or anything.

The best thing you could do is buddy up to a subbie fitter who will look after your machine. I genuinely say this and mean it, if you buy right you will not need him really. Maybe for a service, a hose or something. Sadly its about buying right.

If you do buy new, read the warranty terms a lot may be 1 year full , 2 year power train + drive motors 3 year parts only etc. They will need full service support and history from the dealer so your be "in bed" with them as such. Buy from a local dealer, a dealer 200 mile away will not be able to support you

 

[deuce22]

No problem Ross. I didn't think you were pushing me into it. With all the dodgy s**t I've experienced in the last month or so, I feel that getting it from a dealer (new or used) is definitely what I'll do. I could probably use a 3 ton for 50% of the project and a smaller machine for the other 50%. The benefit I have is that I'm under no time constraints, so I'm not to bothered about the extra work a 3 ton could do. I'd be happy taking my time in a smaller machine and know that it'll get into the smaller areas as well.
I'll make sure I look into the paperwork.
Cheers.

 

[Smiffy]

Id take a closer look at a machine that size than just the hour clock
Some of these machines spend a lot of time idling in comparison to work
And the engines run to huge hours if looked after which should be apparent from the rest of the machine

Also I thought it was a new build rather than refurb in which case surely bigger is always better on an empty site
Not only does it give extra power and reach but as I said in another thread a 2.5 will lift a builders bag which is very useful
It's a sensible size moving concrete which 1.8 would be hopeless at
And it is about the smallest acceptable to load an 8 wheeler
Bearing in mind a grab lorry holds 5 tonne less than a tipper and your paying by the lorry load that can soon add up on savings aswell
Modern 2.5 machines are available with expanding undercarriage if access is an issue and most machines are zero tail swing now if you still want to look at new

 

[doobin]

Which 2.5t machines have expanding undercarriage??

 

[fred]

Don’t think any 3 tonners have the height to load an 8 wheeler unless sat on a heap.

3 tonneris quite a bit more dollar than a 1.5

 

[doobin]

1.8t is a great size to start with. Will be plenty once the 8t has done the bulk.
5 years warranty, 5 years finance. Way forward in my book.
I just need to use genuine parts for my serving. Easy enough. I keep detailed records.