Brexit

[Lancs Lad]

Heated discussion shows how divided we still are on the subject of brexit!!
Third country should not be confused with third world country.
The reality is world politics are becoming very inward looking. Brexit and Trump was the start of a wave of nationalism. The EU is done, they just don’t realise it!! What saved the UK was not joining the euro money laundering project.
As for the EU punishing the Uk, the 24hr vaccine debacle has shot themselves in both feet. There are many international pharmaceutical companies that are now planning on taking manufacturing resources away from the EU as they are no longer seen as being trustworthy. Governments like big business, they take the payroll taxes off the employed and hand them over. The reality is the EU made decisions on what country would have the benefit of those taxes based upon politics. Times are changing.

Well said, I was a remainer...suited our business very well to stay in and I travel to EU regularly etc . Then watching the whole debacle after we voted out and subsequent events I'm all for forging our own path and have spoken to plenty other likewise. EU showed it's true colours after we voted out imo.

 

[Furniss]

You know nothing about my situation and you assume wrongly that I want things to go badly for the u.k - when thats not the case so dont jump to conclusions...... bob

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

@topkit sorry for sounding like a stuck record but you still haven’t come up with any “punishment” that effects your daily life. The little spat 3 months ago is not something I would call punishment but opinions may vary.

What is interesting to see (not aimed at you directly topkit) is how the general population in the UK is turning a blind eye to the corruption going on in our own government. They are happy to point it out in any other country/EU but it seems that the rose tinted spectacles stop them from seeing it on our own shores.

And for the avoidance of all doubt, I certainly wish no harm on the UK!! It would however be nice if we start taking some responsibility ourselves instead of blaming everything always on others. This never used to be the case a decade ago but it seems that generation snowflake now includes the whole population. (tarring everybody with the same brush which is unfair but you get my drift)

Oh and Mr Topkit, I am predominantly metric but in aviation most stuff is imperial.

 

[topkit]

@Flying Torquewrench We have gone from and i quote "can you name me one example where you feel that the EU is punishing us for leaving? " to which I replied regarding the vaccine fiasco and the measure's taken against the UK and then retraced within 24 hours. Also one of the first things to happen was EU going beyond what is required by its own rules, making, for example, the export of bivalve molluscs such as oysters and mussels more difficult than it needs to be especially as they were quite happy to take them pre Brexit however a lot more people in the UK are now enjoying them rather than the French n although I believe this has also been circumnavigated to a certain extent now, The likes of Sainsbury having food stuff deliberately delayed in transit again is unnecessary, But to quote you again "sorry for sounding like a stuck record but you still haven’t come up with any “punishment that effects your daily life" which is in fact not the same question!. I am affected by the pettiness of how the EU'S customs are holding goods coming to the UK when our paperwork is 100% correct it is just sheer bloody mindedness of some EU member states and their customs officials, This is however beginning to backfire as I mentioned before to get around this stupidity I already have one supplier moving and opening a large warehouse in Leicester which is great news for us, I also have another supplier that is now shipping direct from the far East to the UK rather than via Rotterdam. It is just a shame that the Common Market was not just left as the Common Market for everyone to trade easily instead via a series of backdoor treaties a Parliament has been created and a group of people all totally unaccountable for their actions have there snouts in a very large trough of money although it is about a third smaller for them now Good news again today also are the latest figures for manufacturing in the UK which is up by quite a decent margin. Funny we have not seen the cliff edge that we were warned about pre referendum. Enough now as i need to crack on with my day and what a glorious one it is today everyone enjoy !

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Fair enough @topkit I was expecting that you were going to say that about my question.

However my original question still stands. The claim was that the EU is punishing us for leaving. You used the vaccine fiasco but do you really call that punishment? If so, then we must have completely different ideas of what defines punishment.

The oysters and mussels issue is a direct consequence of Brexit and the UK becoming a third country (NOT third world). The rules relating to seafood were agreed in 2008 and the UK voted in favour! These rules were well known to the government so it shouldn’t have come as a surprise.

I have no issues with people claiming that the EU is punishing us for leaving. However what I have an issue with is people using rules that have been in existence for years and are now applicable to the UK as “proof” of punishment.

Against popular belief the EU’s income is not a third smaller now the UK has left. The UK paid 14 billion a year to the EU but got rebates worth 5 billion, hence the net contribution is 9 billion. The 14 billion the UK before rebates is a long way away from being 1/3 of the EU budget.

It may come as a surprise but the European countries are not as obsessed with Brexit as the UK is. I read the news in four countries and you will be lucky if you find anything relating to Brexit on page 5 or 6, quite often even further back.

I am very glad to hear that the UK manufacturing is up!

Anyway thanks for being a good sparring partner! We are just being loaded with 63293 kgs of freight to take back to the UK. Time to go and do some work, it is a beautiful day for it. Enjoy the sunshine!

 

[topkit]

I can, Believe it or not - agree with you on the seafood issues as this is something that should have been sorted ages ago, but unfortunately we had a lot of politicians that were intent on disrupting Brexit and making a very soft Brexit, However due to the way the EU works individual countries cannot negotiate there own deals it has to be done via the EU which we know likes to take its time and stipulate various rules and regulations and policies some good and some a total waste of time, To be importing and eating something one minute and then banning it the next was a bit silly but like everything if you want something bad enough you will find a way around the obstacle to get it. But as I said previously if we had just stuck with a Common Market for trading between countries everything would have been fine but unfortunately Politics and a project along with a little thing called the Euro have all got in the way, Something thankfully that we did not get involved with apart from the ERM which I remember fondly when my mortgage interest rate went up to about 14% in one day! I am sure other countries do not have much interest in Brexit although there are some that are watching it closely I have Friends in Italy that take a keen interest in it as there is a growing unrest especially outside of the Cities, much like we had here in the UK and we see the same in France too where Politicians seem to forget the population that live outside of the Metroplitan centres. Enjoy your trip back to the UK - IS YOUR PAPERVERK IN ORDER !

 

[Bob]

You know nothing about my situation and you assume wrongly that I want things to go badly for the u.k - when thats not the case so dont jump to conclusions...... bob

Sorry Furniss I didnt mean it the way you took it my thought was that if LePen get into power and upset Brussels France could be kicked out of EU

​

 

[Bri963]

@topkit sorry for sounding like a stuck record but you still haven’t come up with any “punishment” that effects your daily life. The little spat 3 months ago is not something I would call punishment but opinions may vary.

What is interesting to see (not aimed at you directly topkit) is how the general population in the UK is turning a blind eye to the corruption going on in our own government. They are happy to point it out in any other country/EU but it seems that the rose tinted spectacles stop them from seeing it on our own shores.

And for the avoidance of all doubt, I certainly wish no harm on the UK!! It would however be nice if we start taking some responsibility ourselves instead of blaming everything always on others. This never used to be the case a decade ago but it seems that generation snowflake now includes the whole population. (tarring everybody with the same brush which is unfair but you get my drift)

Oh and Mr Topkit, I am predominantly metric but in aviation most stuff is imperial.

I think we took responsibility for ourselves when we left the EU. Can you tell me why exactly we should be grateful to Brussels for graciously allowing us to spend some of our £14 billion on ourselves while their largely unelected selves decide where the other £9 billion goes? I’d appreciate an answer to that one before I’ll accept the charge of being blinkered, though no doubt it all goes to wholesome, enriching projects and none whatsoever into the bloated bank accounts of the EU commissioners, etc.

What we joined in the 70’s was good. What we left was a shambles, as the issues of uncontrolled immigration and the vaccine debacle over there show. You could also argue that threatening to cut off the power to Jersey and blockading the port didn’t reflect well on France, one of the leading lights of the EU, What I don’t get is if the UK is so bad, why do so many people want to come here, and if the EU is so marvellous, why do so few want to move there unless they can keep UK citizenship?

 

[Furniss]

I think we took responsibility for ourselves when we left the EU. Can you tell me why exactly we should be grateful to Brussels for graciously allowing us to spend some of our £14 billion on ourselves while their largely unelected selves decide where the other £9 billion goes? I’d appreciate an answer to that one before I’ll accept the charge of being blinkered, though no doubt it all goes to wholesome, enriching projects and none whatsoever into the bloated bank accounts of the EU commissioners, etc.

What we joined in the 70’s was good. What we left was a shambles, as the issues of uncontrolled immigration and the vaccine debacle over there show. You could also argue that threatening to cut off the power to Jersey and blockading the port didn’t reflect well on France, one of the leading lights of the EU, What I don’t get is if the UK is so bad, why do so many people want to come here, and if the EU is so marvellous, why do so few want to move there unless they can keep UK citizenship?

I dont think anyone suggested the EU is marvellous and dont really want to get involved but I would hazard a guess at Handouts

I could be wrong but it seems to me like the people who voted leave think that all remainers are of the opinion that the EU is great which isnt necessarily the case.

 

[Bri963]

Well, the mistake of the media was to paint all leavers with the same brush, and I certainly wouldn’t paint all remainers with the same brush, but certainly some people did think the world was going to end when we left and still can’t accept that it hasn’t‘.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

@Bri963 maybe before launching into a tirade you should actually read what I have written!

My comment regarding the £14 Billion was in relation to topkit claiming that the UK represents 1/3rd of the EU budget. Something that is simply not true! At no point have I written anywhere that you should be grateful to the EU for allowing to spend some of your £14 billion on yourselves.

Secondly, in not a single one of my posts have I written that the EU is without it faults.

So thanks, but next time before you reply let the red mist settle and actually read the post before you reply.

 

[topkit]

I thought I would post this for anyone who is interested albeit it was from 2018 I have hunted for 2019 but could not fine a decent one, But it is a very good and comes from a proper source. I must admit I cannot quite believe Luxembourg and Belgium are net takers ! But it is interesting. FYI this is our Net figure after we have received our handouts for various projects.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

In addition to @topkit chart, below is the chart in relation to biggest contribution per capita. It goes on for longer but I take it that the top is more interesting.

 

[Furniss]

In addition to @topkit chart, below is the chart in relation to biggest contribution per capita. It goes on for longer but I take it that the top is more interesting.
View attachment 25097

Interesting

 

[topkit]

I take it as it's per capita per person that is because we are one of the most over populated small countries in Europe now. Mainly due to a certain thing that Mr Blair allowed to happen, I distinctly remember his stating that 5 - 13,000 People would come to the UK- Well that was a gross underestimation as
Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million immigrants, more than twice the population of Birmingham. In Labour’s last term in government, 2005-2010, net migration reached on average 247,000 a year and we wonder why we have a housing crisis!

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

List of countries in Europe by population density.

 

[Bri963]

@Bri963 maybe before launching into a tirade you should actually read what I have written!

My comment regarding the £14 Billion was in relation to topkit claiming that the UK represents 1/3rd of the EU budget. Something that is simply not true! At no point have I written anywhere that you should be grateful to the EU for allowing to spend some of your £14 billion on yourselves.

Secondly, in not a single one of my posts have I written that the EU is without it faults.

So thanks, but next time before you reply let the red mist settle and actually read the post before you reply.

No red mist here, and as for tirades, re-read your own posts. I did, and was very impressed.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

No red mist here, and as for tirades, re-read your own posts. I did, and was very impressed.

Please enlighten me!

 

[topkit]

That differs slightly from this one for 2021. Where We have jumped from 8th place to 3rd place for population/ Density.

European Countries by population (2021)​

#	Country (or dependency)	Population (2020)	Yearly Change	Net Change	Density (P/Km²)	Land Area (Km²)	Migrants (net)	Fert. Rate	Med. Age	Urban Pop %	World Share
1	Russia	145,934,462	0.04 %	62,206	9	16,376,870	182,456	1.8	40	74 %	1.87 %
2	Germany	83,783,942	0.32 %	266,897	240	348,560	543,822	1.6	46	76 %	1.07 %
3	United Kingdom	67,886,011	0.53 %	355,839	281	241,930	260,650	1.8	40	83 %	0.87 %
4	France	65,273,511	0.22 %	143,783	119	547,557	36,527	1.9	42	82 %	0.84 %
5	Italy	60,461,826	-0.15 %	-88,249	206	294,140	148,943	1.3	47	69 %	0.78 %
6	Spain	46,754,778	0.04 %	18,002	94	498,800	40,000	1.3	45	80 %	0.60 %
7	Ukraine	43,733,762	-0.59 %	-259,876	75	579,320	10,000	1.4	41	69 %	0.56 %
8	Poland	37,846,611	-0.11 %	-41,157	124	306,230	-29,395	1.4	42	60 %	0.49 %
9	Romania	19,237,691	-0.66 %	-126,866	84	230,170	-73,999	1.6	43	55 %	0.25 %
10	Netherlands	17,134,872	0.22 %	37,742	508	33,720	16,000	1.7	43	92 %	0.22 %
11	Belgium	11,589,623	0.44 %	50,295	383	30,280	48,000	1.7	42	98 %	0.15 %
12	Czech Republic	10,708,981	0.18 %	19,772	139	77,240	22,011	1.6	43	74 %	0.14 %
13	Greece	10,423,054	-0.48 %	-50,401	81	128,900	-16,000	1.3	46	85 %	0.13 %
14	Portugal	10,196,709	-0.29 %	-29,478	111	91,590	-6,000	1.3	46	66 %	0.13 %
15	Sweden	10,099,265	0.63 %	62,886	25	410,340	40,000	1.9	41	88 %	0.13 %
16	Hungary	9,660,351	-0.25 %	-24,328	107	90,530	6,000	1.5	43	72 %	0.12 %
17	Belarus	9,449,323	-0.03 %	-3,088	47	202,910	8,730	1.7	40	79 %	0.12 %
18	Austria	9,006,398	0.57 %	51,296	109	82,409	65,000	1.5	43	57 %	0.12 %
19	Serbia	8,737,371	-0.40 %	-34,864	100	87,460	4,000	1.5	42	56 %	0.11 %
20	Switzerland	8,654,622	0.74 %	63,257	219	39,516	52,000	1.5	43	74 %	0.11 %
21	Bulgaria	6,948,445	-0.74 %	-51,674	64	108,560	-4,800	1.6	45	76 %	0.09 %
22	Denmark	5,792,202	0.35 %	20,326	137	42,430	15,200	1.8	42	88 %	0.07 %
23	Finland	5,540,720	0.15 %	8,564	18	303,890	14,000	1.5	43	86 %	0.07 %
24	Slovakia	5,459,642	0.05 %	2,629	114	48,088	1,485	1.5	41	54 %	0.07 %
25	Norway	5,421,241	0.79 %	42,384	15	365,268	28,000	1.7	40	83 %	0.07 %
26	Ireland	4,937,786	1.13 %	55,291	72	68,890	23,604	1.8	38	63 %	0.06 %
27	Croatia	4,105,267	-0.61 %	-25,037	73	55,960	-8,001	1.4	44	58 %	0.05 %
28	Moldova	4,033,963	-0.23 %	-9,300	123	32,850	-1,387	1.3	38	43 %	0.05 %
29	Bosnia	3,280,819	-0.61 %	-20,181	64	51,000	-21,585	1.3	43	52 %	0.04 %
30	Albania	2,877,797	-0.11 %	-3,120	105	27,400	-14,000	1.6	36	63 %	0.04 %
31	Lithuania	2,722,289	-1.35 %	-37,338	43	62,674	-32,780	1.7	45	71 %	0.03 %
32	North Macedonia	2,083,374	0.00 %	-85	83	25,220	-1,000	1.5	39	59 %	0.03 %
33	Slovenia	2,078,938	0.01 %	284	103	20,140	2,000	1.6	45	55 %	0.03 %
34	Latvia	1,886,198	-1.08 %	-20,545	30	62,200	-14,837	1.7	44	69 %	0.02 %
35	Estonia	1,326,535	0.07 %	887	31	42,390	3,911	1.6	42	68 %	0.02 %
36	Montenegro	628,066	0.01 %	79	47	13,450	-480	1.8	39	68 %	0.01 %
37	Luxembourg	625,978	1.66 %	10,249	242	2,590	9,741	1.5	40	88 %	0.01 %
38	Malta	441,543	0.27 %	1,171	1,380	320	900	1.5	43	93 %	0.01 %
39	Iceland	341,243	0.65 %	2,212	3	100,250	380	1.8	37	94 %	0.00 %
40	Channel Islands	173,863	0.93 %	1,604	915	190	1,351	1.5	43	30 %	0.00 %
41	Isle of Man	85,033	0.53 %	449	149	570		N.A.	N.A.	53 %	0.00 %
42	Andorra	77,265	0.16 %	123	164	470		N.A.	N.A.	88 %	0.00 %
43	Faeroe Islands	48,863	0.38 %	185	35	1,396		N.A.	N.A.	43 %	0.00 %
44	Monaco	39,242	0.71 %	278	26,337	1		N.A.	N.A.	N.A.	0.00 %
45	Liechtenstein	38,128	0.29 %	109	238	160		N.A.	N.A.	15 %	0.00 %
46	San Marino	33,931	0.21 %	71	566	60		N.A.	N.A.	97 %	0.00 %
47	Gibraltar	33,691	-0.03 %	-10	3,369	10		N.A.	N.A.	N.A.	0.00 %
48	Holy Sea	801	0.25 %	2	2,003	0		N.A.	N.A.	N.A.	0.00 %

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Yours is probably more recent.