Anyone using electric diggers?

[Bri963]

What we need is a good pandemic..... Oh wait.

I actually think it's quite simple.... Ban air travel for anything that is not direct charitable action (e.g earthquake rescue relief - Yes.... Politician off to Cornwall - No) Pre 50's it was very very simple. You got on Boaty mc Boatface and sailed.

Well, Boaty McBoatface got one of my relatives safely to Australia in the 1800's. They even thoughtfully chained him to the side so he couldn't hurt himself, or nick any more loaves of bread, which was got him his free cruise in the first place.

 

[Grahams]

Does any of what we do re flying or eating meat really make much difference if the Chinese and Indians are trying to bring their peasants out of poverty and industrialising powered predominently by coal and if any of the pictures are to be believed using the same method of waste disposal we did a couple of hundred years ago, namely chucking their rubbish in rivers and the sea, but doing everything on such a vaste scale whatever small counties do will be swamped.

 

[Bri963]

Sadly, there is huge "lets ban everything" movement, that seems to want to control everything we do. I'd bet my house that if someone did invent an engine that ran on water and exhausted pixie farts, there'd be someone wanting to ban it because "they don't like it".

 

[GazCro]

Does any of what we do re flying or eating meat really make much difference if the Chinese and Indians are trying to bring their peasants out of poverty and industrialising powered predominently by coal and if any of the pictures are to be believed using the same method of waste disposal we did a couple of hundred years ago, namely chucking their rubbish in rivers and the sea, but doing everything on such a vaste scale whatever small counties do will be swamped.

The thing is with the likes of china and india is they are only doing what we did during the industrial revolution. Its ok now us saying to them you can't do this that and the next thing but the green options cost money which their economies can't afford until they have the money behind them earned off the back of fossil fuels to begin with.
Fair enough what we are doing may be of miniscule benefit if you look at pollution and co2 output of some other nations, but is that a good enough reason to do nothing?

 

[Bri963]

The thing is with the likes of china and india is they are only doing what we did during the industrial revolution. Its ok now us saying to them you can't do this that and the next thing but the green options cost money which their economies can't afford until they have the money behind them earned off the back of fossil fuels to begin with.
Fair enough what we are doing may be of miniscule benefit if you look at pollution and co2 output of some other nations, but is that a good enough reason to do nothing?

China's economy can't afford to go green? They just put a space rocket on Mars or Mongo or somewhere like that. That bus fare wasn't cheap.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

FT, don't for one minute think that I take personally anything I read, or mean any malice in what I post. Life is too short, especially when you get to my age.

Same here @Bri963 . I know that my Dutch directness can come across a bit harsh at times. The written word doesn’t always help either.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

| EarthSky

Carbon dioxide, CO2, makes up less than one-twentieth of 1% of Earth's atmosphere. How does this relatively scarce gas control Earth's thermostat?

earthsky.org

This one explains why upper atmosphere CO2 isn't good. You have to read quite a way, though. There are others.

Hadn’t seen this before I posted. Thank you, I will have a read.

 

[GazCro]

China's economy can't afford to go green? They just put a space rocket on Mars or Mongo or somewhere like that. That bus fare wasn't cheap.

Cost of that is peanuts compared to a complete re think of how they produce power for industry and at the same time keep costs of what they produce down so we all still wanna buy it. That's without taking into account that they would want to use a dearer energy source.

 

[Bri963]

Same here @Bri963 . I know that my Dutch directness can come across a bit harsh at times. The written word doesn’t always help either.

I nearly married a Dutch lass back in the '90's, so I understand entirely. Not sure which one of us had the closest escape.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Maybe it should just go up to a sensible/responsible price - flying hoards of people out to spain for 19:99€ each doesnt seem right sensible to me

It depends on how you look at it. I work for an aircraft manufacturer as an engineer but also as a pilot. If we sell a new aircraft to a company then we often provide the training for them.

You see that with the €19.99 airlines the airplanes are pretty full (90+%) whilst the national airlines with higher prices have a lower occupancy rate. Of the two the full aircraft is less damaging to the environment then the half empty one.
Higher prices will of course stop some people from flying but it doesn’t mean that we will have significantly less flights. Just that there will be less people on the aircraft and therefore the environmental impact per passenger is higher.

 

[Bri963]

Cost of that is peanuts compared to a complete re think of how they produce power for industry and at the same time keep costs of what they produce down so we all still wanna buy it. That's without taking into account that they would want to use a dearer energy source.

China is too big and awkward for anyone to tell them what they should do, but if they genuinely believed in a cleaner planet they'd just do it, and with centralised planning a lot faster then the west. China and India are both nuclear powers, so surely they can build power stations. Whether we follow the green agenda or not, if some of the science is to be believed we're screwed climate-wise if China, India and Brazil carry on as they are. We need one good Krakatoa and everyone will be unbricking the fireplaces sharpish.

 

[GazCro]

China is too big and awkward for anyone to tell them what they should do, but if they genuinely believed in a cleaner planet they'd just do it, and with centralised planning a lot faster then the west. China and India are both nuclear powers, so surely they can build power stations. Whether we follow the green agenda or not, if some of the science is to be believed we're screwed climate-wise if China, India and Brazil carry on as they are. We need one good Krakatoa and everyone will be unbricking the fireplaces sharpish.

I think you miss my point though. As an country which has built its industry (and then got rid of most of it ) and economy off the back of cheap fast and safe fossil fuels what makes you think they would take a blind bit of notice of us telling them to do it the expensive way. At the end of the day they'll realise what we are on about some day and then do something about it even if it is too late.
We look like the biggest bunch of hypocrites trying to tell countries not to do what we have done. Like Brazil, fair enough felling the rainforest is a huge devastating and irrecoverable thing for the environment and a lot of rare and unique species. But look at it from their side, huge population living largely third world on a very small clear area of a vast country trying to spread out and grow food and produce to sell to make money. Exactly what we have done to what was once a lot more tree covered Britain.

 

[Lancs Lad]

What's the answer?
4.99 one way flights to magaluff? We all live happily ever after....
Yes I'm absolutely fkked off with holiday makers today...trying to work is nigh on impossible.

 

[Grahams]

What's the answer?
4.99 one way flights to magaluff? We all live happily ever after....
Yes I'm absolutely fkked off with holiday makers today...trying to work is nigh on impossible.

I would much rather they pushed off to magaluff (not 100% sure that is how you spell it) or anywhere rather than clogging up the roads round here.

 

[Grahams]

The thing is with the likes of china and india is they are only doing what we did during the industrial revolution. Its ok now us saying to them you can't do this that and the next thing but the green options cost money which their economies can't afford until they have the money behind them earned off the back of fossil fuels to begin with.
Fair enough what we are doing may be of miniscule benefit if you look at pollution and co2 output of some other nations, but is that a good enough reason to do nothing?

I agree, why wouldn’t they want to bring their people out of poverty? I guess I didn’t explain what I meant enough.
Is it a good enough reason for us to do nothing - possibly yes, but certainly get an idea of cost versus benefit. No point in putting our people on the dole just to buy the same product made in a “dirty” industry abroad.

 

[Lancs Lad]

I would much rather they pushed off to magaluff (not 100% sure that is how you spell it) or anywhere rather than clogging up the roads round here.

110friggin % agree. Think it's worse since lockdown they've now forgotten how to drive their tin tents as well.

 

[GazCro]

110friggin % agree. Think it's worse since lockdown they've now forgotten how to drive their tin tents as well.

I've been lucky with where I've been working so far but I'm already at the end of my tether with meeting those numptys on narrow roads who seem to think full lock is required to reverse straight back 10 yards

 

[Bri963]

I think you miss my point though. As an country which has built its industry (and then got rid of most of it ) and economy off the back of cheap fast and safe fossil fuels what makes you think they would take a blind bit of notice of us telling them to do it the expensive way. At the end of the day they'll realise what we are on about some day and then do something about it even if it is too late.
We look like the biggest bunch of hypocrites trying to tell countries not to do what we have done. Like Brazil, fair enough felling the rainforest is a huge devastating and irrecoverable thing for the environment and a lot of rare and unique species. But look at it from their side, huge population living largely third world on a very small clear area of a vast country trying to spread out and grow food and produce to sell to make money. Exactly what we have done to what was once a lot more tree covered Britain.

Not missing your point at all, just don’t agree with it. We didn’t know what damage we were doing 150 years ago, now everyone does, so there’s no justification for these countries re-inventing the wheel. I’m certainly not on a guilt trip about what we did back then.

 

[GazCro]

Not missing your point at all, just don’t agree with it. We didn’t know what damage we were doing 150 years ago, now everyone does, so there’s no justification for these countries re-inventing the wheel. I’m certainly not on a guilt trip about what we did back then.

Thing is we've gone full circle and now have a conscience. They do not they are just GREEDY and want what we have and more and do not care how they achieve it.

 

[Lancs Lad]

I've been lucky with where I've been working so far but I'm already at the end of my tether with meeting those numptys on narrow roads who seem to think full lock is required to reverse straight back 10 yards

I feel your pain .don't envy you up there atm..