Advice starting out best machine

[Lucky777]

Thought I would do a post after sifting though the site getting some helpful info. I’m a builder and joiner to trade but fed up with the big jobs and doing a bit of everything for example house extensions. I bought a micro E10 bobcat 5 years ago initially to help with the building work and found levelling gardens and the like are better paid and less stress than the bigger jobs. After much reading I price no less than £290 day rate (Glasgow) sometimes higher if I can.. now that I’m more confident with the machine I’m pricing bigger jobs such as large driveways and footings that are too much for the micro. Getting these jobs done quicker via price work requires a larger machine.. I’m thinking going 1.7-2t. I would happily go with a kubota KX30-4 and call it a day as that’s about the biggest you could tow but im targeting the smaller jobs such as for the general public/small builders rather than site work so it needs to still be compact. I was looking at the bobcat E20z as zero tailswing is handy but since I have the micro I think I might be as well going conventional? I’m looking for advice getting the most productive reliable machine that’s still compact… my understanding the heaviest machine you can get at 1 metre wide is 2t?? I would go heavier if there’s any at 1m over 2 tonnes as towing is not a problem. Not looking to start any arguments but what would you all recommend? Basically I’m looking at finding the KX30-4 of the 1 metre wide range lol

 

[Quattromike]

are you planning buying new or used? I think the general consensus is buy as big as you can possibly get away with.

 

[Gecko]

One question - will you be keeping the E10?
If you are, then it reduces the compromises you'll have to make with your new/bigger machine.

 

[Stroppymonkey]

I opened a thread a year or 2 ago similar to this. https://www.planttalk.co.uk/threads/best-towable-excavator-over-next-10-20-years.4913/page-13

Different situation for me , the plumbing and heating jobs we do pay the bills and the odd related ground work stuff (oil tank bases/trenches and water main repairs and replacments) is enough to keep my mind active and the E10z paying for itself and we only do them at normal rate of £450+ a day. I would love to be out in a machine all day long , but the money just isn’t there as lots of farmers and farmers sons undercutting the market for general work. If I was looking a bit more niche such as septic system or private water then I daresay that would pay the money. Trouble is none of my crew really want to be out in the trenches all the time. The small amount we do can be juggled around the weather so we don’t get muddy very often.
You will struggle to tow a Kx030 legally but depends on where you are working, down here in Devon you’ve got little chance of a tug. Best to stay legal though.

Would have thought with driveways you might well benefit from a 2 tonner with zero swing?

Try and find one with 30mm pins (kubota had 30mm) as it’s dead handy being able to switch attachments between machines.

Do you want 1m just for access or operating width? Even the bobcat E10 is wider than that operating ?

 

[doobin]

I used to do a lot similar work but down South. I have an E19, E19 and E27. The E19 doesn’t get used much these days but that’s mainly because I don’t do domestics any more. The micro gets used occasionally, because as you know by now, when you need a micro you need a micro.

For domestic footings, often the dumper and haul route is the bottleneck. Consider this before splashing out a lot more wonga on a 2.7t. I found a 1.9t great for almost all domestic works unless we are talking big country houses or very deep footings/hard ground. A 2.7t is often too cumbersome in a lot of domestic settings.

Are you looking new or secondhand? The E20 is a very expensive machine new- but if you want new and a cab in that class there’s not a lot of options and all are expensive. None will come close to the power or lifting capability of an e27/kx30.

For a canopy machine I’d be looking at the latest Hyundai 1.9t zero tail- you can bolt an additional counterweight on for more stability and remove it if the job calls for true zero. I had the old model for five years and it was a superb machine for domestic works, super smooth and powerful. And much cheaper than an e20.

For a conventional tailswing- not to be rude but you are in a low priced area although kudos for you for maximising what you can get. There are a plethora of barely used 1.9t Sany/luigong models available for around £10k with under a thousand hours on and often with a cab. All will do a job, and would be a cheap route to test the concept for you, possibly leaving enough change to ‘complete the set’ with a decent 2.7t much quicker than you would otherwise.

It’s a buyers market currently, both new and secondhand. Give us an idea of your expected budget.

PS- get yourself a decent little breaker and also a ripper tooth.

 

[Storrsy]

The Wacker neuson ET20 is probably the heaviest machine that will go down to a just under a meter. It actually weighs 2.2t. its also got the highest breakout and lifting of any of the expanding track machines that go down to under a meter. The tracks are almost a foot longer than most 1.9t machines which is great for stability but perhaps not so much if your having to shuffle and twist down the sides of houses... Could be an option...

 

[William127]

For domestic work I'd say go 1.7-1.9 zero tail, coupled with a hitip track dumper. I have a slanetrac which is great but I recently picked up this little cormidi. The slanetrac is definitely better but is a lot more expensive and a lot bigger, whereas the cormidi will comfortably fit in the plant trailer with the 217r.
For the digger I'd definitely want zero tail for tight spaces and canopy- easier to get on and off, better visibility in very tight spaces, can take off with a few bolts.
Model wise I love my Takeuchi but the hyundai Doobin mentioned sounds great and should be on a 0% finance of some kind at the moment
The performance/reach jump from a micro to a 1.7 is massive- I was doing 2.4m footings in clay with mine last week, fully maxed out, well into 2.7 territory but wouldn't have got one near the job.

 

[Lucky777]

Really appreciate the reply’s! It’s got me thinking I’m better to go with a zero tail 1.9t canopy as it will be domestic work only. The E10 is a great machine but I was pricing up a job that required 2.4m footings so need to hire in something till I buy a new to me 1.9.. would probably struggle to get a 2.7-3t in as with most domestic work. Access is the limiting factor for a 2.7 but I would eventually get one as large driveways could be done in half the time. Day rate is good but on price work I would really benefit from a larger machine. Pros for canopy.. better visibility/can take the canopy off if need be/probably cheaper? I wasn’t aware Glasgow was a low priced area as I’m only advertising on gumtree and have literally no contacts to get work in this segment but yet I’m getting a lot of enquiries that I price via WhatsApp video and price them no lower than £290 a day although I’ve never priced as high as £450 I dare say that would be possible. As said before the E10 was purely just to help with my own jobs but I’m now finding if I reach out and do more advertising and ring around I could possibly get plenty of work. Just need to decide on what 1.9t to get. I may have a look at the Hyundai but I do like the idea of a cab but not sure if this would be cumbersome on domestic jobs visibility wise? I do like the high lift tracked dumpers but for now I’m thinking going muck truck max as seems really good value for money. Forgot to mention this would be a used machine as I got a good buy with the bobcat at 13.5k almost 5 years ago at just over 200 hours 2017 model.. now at just over 400 hours so I’ll have to get it serviced asap if I’m going to be using it more. As said before I’m only starting out in this segment and have no idea who’s best to service this for me in Glasgow if anyone has any recommendations? This site has been great as that’s what helped me choose the E10 years ago and I’m glad I did. Hopefully the next step up and more advertising will all workout What’s the Hyundai model called? Thanks again lads!

 

[TiltyShaun]

Good luck. I run a Kubota kx71-3 which has served me well. I don’t really do domestic as most of my work is new build so I prefer my machine to have an arse!! If I get called to do a job that is narrow access, then it is not really for me!!! I also run an 8 tonner which is definitely not narrow access.

 

[doobin]

What’s the Hyundai model called? Thanks again lads!

The Hyundai model I had was the R17Z-9A. It's been superceded now but here's the specs. It was also rebadged by Case and New Holland for the period it was produced.

Hyundai R17Z-9A Compact Excavator

Learn more

www.hyundai-ce.eu

Theres been a few for sale on marketplace recently but all asking too much- 10k would be the max id say one is worth these days.

I forgot about the Hitatchi models- ticks your boxes, Japanese quality and reliability, will run high hours with no bother. Very basic machines but cheap- pretty sure someone on here had a quote recently for £15.5k plus VAT for the 17 model. I would have bought one but I preferred Hyundai's roller on the joysticks for the breaker line instead of the foot pedal which Hitachi use. Stretch the payments over five years with the manufacturer's subsidised finance and you're probbaly looking at around £300 per month in finance costs. One days work per month pays the hire for that month. That's always been my sweet spot with financing things. You should be able to negotiate a 5 year warranty for very little/free in the current climate too.

ZX17U/19U-6 Mini Excavators

www.hitachicm.com

I'm a fan of canopy for domestic works. Plenty of times I've needed to take it off to squeeze under eaves etc to do a job the micro wasn't really capable of- heavy concrete breaking etc. And visibility is better all around. A sheet or two of Perspex is a good investment for the back and maybe a side, easily removable and keeps the wind and therefore 95% of the mizzle off you whilst you work.

 

[Storrsy]

What a cold bleak life all you domestic jobbers must lead. I couldnt contemplate a machine without a nice warm cab to get back into!
I get the zero tail thing for domestics but if you already have a cabless micro surely that will be machine of choice anyway if it really is that tight- get yourself a nice cabbed conventional tailed 2 tonner and opens up more scope for doing larger jobsplus will handle attachments better etc. no point having 2 machines nearly the same better to have more between them for diversity

 

[doobin]

L

What a cold bleak life all you domestic jobbers must lead. I couldnt contemplate a machine without a nice warm cab to get back into!
I get the zero tail thing for domestics but if you already have a cabless micro surely that will be machine of choice anyway if it really is that tight- get yourself a nice cabbed conventional tailed 2 tonner and opens up more scope for doing larger jobsplus will handle attachments better etc. no point having 2 machines nearly the same better to have more between them for diversity

sadly it’s not that simple! On domestics plenty of times you’ll need more dig depth than a micro can offer yet still be very restricted on space.

Anyhow, ROPS builds character!

 

[T whiting]

I'd get a 2.7t Kubota/takeuchi/Wacker neuson as a second machine the e10 is a big micro and I think you'll find a 1.5t machine only a small step up you can easily do a double drive as the smallest project with a 2.5t machine

 

[William127]

What a cold bleak life all you domestic jobbers must lead. I couldnt contemplate a machine without a nice warm cab to get back into!
I get the zero tail thing for domestics but if you already have a cabless micro surely that will be machine of choice anyway if it really is that tight- get yourself a nice cabbed conventional tailed 2 tonner and opens up more scope for doing larger jobsplus will handle attachments better etc. no point having 2 machines nearly the same better to have more between them for diversity

Think the answer is 6 machines minimum
Micro micro, big micro, 1.7 canopy, 2 ton cabbed, canopy 2.5, cabbed 2.7
Then if you get into lorry movements ...

 

[Stroppymonkey]

I'd get a 2.7t Kubota/takeuchi/Wacker neuson as a second machine the e10 is a big micro and I think you'll find a 1.5t machine only a small step up you can easily do a double drive as the smallest project with a 2.5t machine

Think the answer is 6 machines minimum
Micro micro, big micro, 1.7 canopy, 2 ton cabbed, canopy 2.5, cabbed 2.7
Then if you get into lorry movements ...

You haven't mentioned the optimum level of dumpers and wackers to compliment the above list of excavators.

 

[doobin]

I know this job is rough as arseholes, it’s a Saturday morning day rate job.

But it shows what I mean- far too much for a micro to handle, but too tight around the side of the house (and also at the front when I add more trenches) for a 2.7t.

Handy having a big enough machine to run the grab for moving the concrete also.

1.9t really is a sweet spot for domestic groundworks.

 

[Storrsy]

Is that the short dipper on that bobcat?

 

[doobin]

Is that the short dipper on that bobcat?

Naturally

I do keep saying that the long dipper is stupidly long …

 

[Storrsy]

Naturally

I do keep saying that the long dipper is stupidly long …

That one does look quite long for a short dipper. Normally the dipper ram top pin is much closer to the pin where the dipper joins the arm