1.5 ton machine vs 3 ton zero tail swing

[Hg2702]

Evening all, things on the ranch here a changing due to circumstances and I’m toying with the idea of changing to a zero tail 3 tonner to tackle slightly bigger jobs. Finding quite often recently that a cabbed 1.5 ton machine is making acces a pain and also not getting as much work as it’s classed as a small machine. Just wondering peoples views / opions

 

[doobin]

I can really reccomend a larger 1.7t or 1.9t class machine. My Hyundai knocks the spots off the Tak (as I mentioned in a previous post), the canopy is a five minute job to remove for access, and it does everything I throw at it. I tell people who hire us as digger and driver that it's a 2 ton class machine if they ask- no complaints.

Also as discussed recently, a 2.8t class machine on day rate is 40% extra purchase price for 15-10% extra day rate. Not worth it in my book. I am looking to buy one, but only because I need a third machine and have plenty of quote rate jobs.

 

[TiltyShaun]

I run an older Kx71-3 as not a fan of the zero tail machines. I have an Engcon and post hole knocker and machine is very stable!!

 

[Hg2702]

I can really reccomend a larger 1.7t or 1.9t class machine. My Hyundai knocks the spots off the Tak (as I mentioned in a previous post), the canopy is a five minute job to remove for access, and it does everything I throw at it. I tell people who hire us as digger and driver that it's a 2 ton class machine if they ask- no complaints.

Also as discussed recently, a 2.8t class machine on day rate is 40% extra purchase price for 15-10% extra day rate. Not worth it in my book. I am looking to buy one, but only because I need a third machine and have plenty of quote rate jobs.

I get what your saying although around here it’s hard to explain that however a compromise might be a middle size machine

 

[Hg2702]

I run an older Kx71-3 as not a fan of the zero tail machines. I have an Engcon and post hole knocker and machine is very stable!!

Not a huge lover of zeros myself but if it comes down to being a tight spot to get into that could swing it , trouble I’ve got at the minute is it’s either ridiculously tight for my machine or the jobs to big but we don’t hire anything as we own the 216

 

[Jimoz]

I've never found a massive difference between hire costs as a customer with different weight class machines. I'm talking below 6t. Does imply smaller machine is better return

 

[doobin]

Not a huge lover of zeros myself but if it comes down to being a tight spot to get into that could swing it , trouble I’ve got at the minute is it’s either ridiculously tight for my machine or the jobs to big but we don’t hire anything as we own the 216

I feel your pain. That's that I bought a micro, and that's why I also need a 2.8t

The good news is that they don't depreciate much, so why not buy a second machine?

 

[Hg2702]

I feel your pain. That's that I bought a micro, and that's why I also need a 2.8t

The good news is that they don't depreciate much, so why not buy a second machine?

Glad it’s not just me ! I work with family and trying to do anything different to the last 50 is like chewing water some days

Only reason I was looking at new potentially was due to wanting to ‘jazz’ it up some what and make it a bit fancy but it may well come down to two bog standard machines to get the ball rolling

 

[fred]

a 2.8/3 tonner as long as its looked after wont lose you hardly any money in its first 3000 hours. I've seen 4k hours for sale for more than new cost on ebay. bloody madness.

Here is a good example, 10 year old machine £1500 cheaper than brand new KX030-4

https://bit.ly/2S4MPB5

 

[doobin]

If a KX030-4 can be had new for £15k, I'll take two....

Not priced a Kubota up but 2.5t machines are generally 21-26k, Kubota being towards the top end usually.

 

[fred]

yeah doobin your right, i was thinking the little one -17. off to get my coffee.......

 

[doobin]

yeah doobin your right, i was thinking the little one -17. off to get my coffee.......

Yup, there's the dilema. If a 15k 1.7-1.9t machine will do 80% of your work (even if you're working it hard), is it really worth stepping up to a 2.8t?

 

[Brendan]

a 2.8/3 tonner as long as its looked after wont lose you hardly any money in its first 3000 hours. I've seen 4k hours for sale for more than new cost on ebay. bloody madness.

Here is a good example, 10 year old machine £1500 cheaper than brand new KX030-4

https://bit.ly/2S4MPB5

Local to me although their used prices always tend to be on the high side

 

[Furniss]

Yup, there's the dilema. If a 15k 1.7-1.9t machine will do 80% of your work (even if you're working it hard),is it really worth stepping up to a 2.8t?

I would say Yes if you are on priced work and can afford to keep your 1.5t as well

 

[Gunners]

I started off with a 1.5t machine. It did everything because it had to - I didn't have any other option! Now I've got the 2.8 its the machine I use 90% of the time. I have more jobs where the access is at least 1.5m wide and the 3m dig depth is required or the ability to lift ton bags about than I do where the access is 1m or height is an issue. The little 801 lives in the shed most of the year and I only had it out this week as a 2nd machine on a job while the engcon was fitted. If the access is s**t its generally so s**t it needs a micro anyway. The bobcat E10 and equivalents are almost 1.5t class anyway with their dig depth but have the ability to be much more versatile in tight situations.
My perfect set up will be 2.8t and a micro in the future but as I've just spent micro money on a fancy bucket I'll give it a miss this year. Would more than likely go 2nd hand anyway as the micro wouldn't be used much. Maybe 5 times a year - I literally rarely have terrible access.

I guess to sum up, if you are finding the 1.5 too big for most of your work then get a smaller machine! If its too small then you wont regret a newer 2.8t class. You can really get some work done with one and I use mine in place of a 5t regularly with no complaints from builders. If you work smart you can shift some gear and "save them hire" whilst charging yourself out at top rates.

On the zero swing thing, its not for me but then I do have a scratched counterweight from being in tight spots. To be fair, the U27 isnt a bad machine to drive and one of the better zero's I've driven in that size. Hitachi's are really noddy in this class, as are the yanmars with terrible folding doors.

 

[TiltyShaun]

Mr Gunners talks some sense!!

 

[doobin]

I wouldn’t say the E10 is that close to a modern 1.7-1.9t. It might equal a crappy jcb 801 but mine is painfully slow compared to the Hyundai. Still bloody good for a micro tho.

Like gunners says, modern machines are light years ahead of older models. My 1.7t is probably equal to a ten year old 2.5t.

I’d hate to be hauling an extra ton to most of my jobs. Small garden dig outs etc, a 2.8t would often be too large. Only way forward for me is going to be three machines.

 

[Hg2702]

Think that’s the answer I’ve been after ! Ollie ! Thank you everyone for the input time to take it to the board

 

[Gunners]

I wouldn’t say the E10 is that close to a modern 1.7-1.9t. It might equal a crappy jcb 801

That's mean Don't be disrespecting my 801, I bought it off ebay, learned the hard way and have pretty much rebuilt the damn thing. Its getting on a bit now, 2002, the undercarriage doesn't expand and the overhang is huge but shes still better than a shovel and has done me proud in the past. A new one would piss all over it but also be 3 times the cost so for what I use it for she can enjoy an easy retirement.
Maybe an E10 isn't quite a 1,5 as many 1.5's are now nearly 1.9t anyway! However they are impressive and the Takuchi and Kobelco's are real pocket rockets in this class being slightly bigger than the E10

 

[Furniss]

That's mean Don't be disrespecting my 801, I bought it off ebay, learned the hard way and have pretty much rebuilt the damn thing. Its getting on a bit now, 2002, the undercarriage doesn't expand and the overhang is huge but shes still better than a shovel and has done me proud in the past. A new one would piss all over it but also be 3 times the cost so for what I use it for she can enjoy an easy retirement.
Maybe an E10 isn't quite a 1,5 as many 1.5's are now nearly 1.9t anyway! However they are impressive and the Takuchi and Kobelco's are real pocket rockets in this class being slightly bigger than the E10

I have had a few 801.5's back in the day and they were good machines still have a 801.4 nowt wrong with them for the money they were a basic spec hire machine after all - I heard so much of this shite about jcb being inferior i started to think it must be true and went to kubota ..... it's all bollocks - they all have their good and bad points.