Forged load tickets

[James_Martin]

Hi,
I have had an invoice through from a muck away contractor that was nearly double what was expected. Not only was the price per load more than what was agreed, when I asked to see load tickets, a few are not signed and several have clearly forged signatures.

Another issue here is that he priced for 20 ton tippers but took it upon himself to send mainly grabs holding 16ton but won’t adjust the price accordingly.

How legally binding are load tickets? Would an unsigned ticket stand up in court as a reason for non payment?

I have already made a part payment on this invoice to show good will but I am withholding the rest until this is sorted.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated. This guy is wanting an extra 5k!

 

[doobin]

Hi,
I have had an invoice through from a muck away contractor that was nearly double what was expected. Not only was the price per load more than what was agreed, when I asked to see load tickets, a few are not signed and several have clearly forged signatures.

Another issue here is that he priced for 20 ton tippers but took it upon himself to send mainly grabs holding 16ton but won’t adjust the price accordingly.

How legally binding are load tickets? Would an unsigned ticket stand up in court as a reason for non payment?

I have already made a part payment on this invoice to show good will but I am withholding the rest until this is sorted.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated. This guy is wanting an extra 5k!

I'm no lawyer but I'd say you'd be in with a good chance.

 

[Lancs Lad]

My understanding is unsigned notes on their own mean diddly squat. Hence with covid most swapped to pictures and or GPS stamp of delivery spot.
If he's got pictures and GPS etc then you might have fun,if not then it's game on with decent legal advice as doob says.
Is worth looking at your T&C's and purchase orders. Get it in writing etc. Seems a faff but there's a reason the big lads document everything.

 

[Smiffy]

Whilst it might not help you load tickets are part of the waste management paperwork trail so forged ones may be of interest to the environment agency. Especially as if he is forging them your end god knows what he's doing the other end. Might also allow some leverage

 

[Bri963]

Do you have anything in writing specifying 8 leggers and price per load? Because nowadays a handshake agreement isn’t worth squat. You can however fight the forged and unsigned tickets, and as stated, the EA might be your friend. Chances are this outfit have pulled the same trick before, so don’t be worried about your rep.

 

[James_Martin]

Do you have anything in writing specifying 8 leggers and price per load? Because nowadays a handshake agreement isn’t worth squat. You can however fight the forged and unsigned tickets, and as stated, the EA might be your friend. Chances are this outfit have pulled the same trick before, so don’t be worried about your rep.

Nothing in writing unfortunately as I was off and my business partner made the agreement. He’s not the best in terms of paperwork.
I know he’s been investigated before by ea and he’s recently been fined 20k for fly tipping of a client’s property after a dispute. He’s definitely got previous for not being straight!

 

[Danny]

I know of a Groundworks contractor that did this and lost his business through it. Making out they had loaded more away when they were and changing numbers and scanning and scanning to make it look legit


Do you know where they were tipping? As were ever they are tipping will have a record of loads in etc

Muck away has a paper trail so should be easy to chase

 

[JD450A]

Long and short will be what agreement was made in the contract regarding volumes and tonnages.

A price per ton or price per yard you have recourse that it should be that

A price per load is ambiguous, E.G a price for 8 leggers can vary between 18t to 22t depending on the lorry type and spec.

You won't have recourse on the transfer notes unless you can prove they have disposed of less than you have charged for.

 

[Bri963]

Nothing in writing unfortunately as I was off and my business partner made the agreement. He’s not the best in terms of paperwork.
I know he’s been investigated before by ea and he’s recently been fined 20k for fly tipping of a client’s property after a dispute. He’s definitely got previous for not being straight!

Strikes me you might need a new business partner, or none. Easy to say from here, but I’d offer the balance of the original agreed amount on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. Let him chase you for the rest if he thinks he has a case. Of course any advice you get on here is worth exactly what you pay for it.

 

[diggerjones]

Out of interest who loaded the trucks.

 

[V8Druid]

Strikes me you might need a new business partner, or none. Easy to say from here, but I’d offer the balance of the original agreed amount on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. Let him chase you for the rest if he thinks he has a case. Of course any advice you get on here is worth exactly what you pay for it.

I'd pay the balance originally quoted and let him pursue you for any balance he claims to be due ..... if he's trying it on it'll be bluff called and doubt he'd want to try justifying it to the man in a wig

 

[DaveDCB]

A lot of muck away and concrete wagons are now using PDA’s for delivery notes, a lot blame covid for not letting you sign them so it’s very hard to keep a track of stuff!


My concrete supplier just tried to charge me for 3 minutes waiting time.. never in 20 years have i had a wagon on site for longer than 30mins.

Depending how much your out of pocket it may be a suck it up and lesson learned job!
I always get a price for each specific wagon the company runs..

A pet hate of mine is 8w grabs turning up for a muck away when it’s priced for a 8w tipper!

 

[hiluxman]

A lot of muck away and concrete wagons are now using PDA’s for delivery notes, a lot blame covid for not letting you sign them so it’s very hard to keep a track of stuff!


My concrete supplier just tried to charge me for 3 minutes waiting time.. never in 20 years have i had a wagon on site for longer than 30mins.

Depending how much your out of pocket it may be a suck it up and lesson learned job!
I always get a price for each specific wagon the company runs..

A pet hate of mine is 8w grabs turning up for a muck away when it’s priced for a 8w tipper!

Yeah much easier to send a 8 legger roro and get away with it