The best loopholes for using dads tractor as a lorry. DVSA please don't look in here.

[Canal Navvy]

Defective brakes could very easily be not bothering to plug the air lines in and running single line hydraulic over 25mph.

I'm amazed that the tractor boys get away with running full size hookloader trailers in town, if they are getting away with that there is little chance of being nicked with a dump trailer

A traffic officer friend did familiarisation at an agricultural machinery dealership as part of their training to try to better police agricultural use

 

[Monkeybusiness]

If the police are pulling them over they will be well briefed into what to look for - it’ll be because of a purge, not a random check.
I bet they will be able to make any charges stick personally.

 

[V8Druid]

If the police are pulling them over they will be well briefed into what to look for - it’ll be because of a purge, not a random check.
I bet they will be able to make any charges stick personally.

agreed .... Mr traffic plod is far more well versed in specifics than most folk are aware .... and always has been

 

[JD450A]

agreed .... Mr traffic plod is far more well versed in specifics than most folk are aware .... and always has been

Unfortunately Grah, as you and I know the dynamics and wording of the law with farmers is often far stickier than Mr traffic plod can cope with....

"defective brakes" can be and most likely are non functioning brake lights.

Key thing is the O license (lack of) and Incorrect License..... this is what needs to be targeted, but unless you know the exact law and are prepared to go with that rather than off on tangents the issue will never change.

 

[Giles]

Unfortunately Grah, as you and I know the dynamics and wording of the law with farmers is often far stickier than Mr traffic plod can cope with....

"defective brakes" can be and most likely are non functioning brake lights.

Key thing is the O license (lack of) and Incorrect License..... this is what needs to be targeted, but unless you know the exact law and are prepared to go with that rather than off on tangents the issue will never change.

No specifics but few replies saying not actual farmers.

 

[doobin]

No specifics but few replies saying not actual farmers.

At a guess, digestate solids?

 

[Quattromike]

Some of the ag contractors are always cutting a fine line between agricultural work and haulage/construction. If it's not abig dump cart shifting muck on the job site or lowloader with excavator on the back it's hauling huge loads of wood chips to the biomass kiln. They run day and night doing this as don't need to worry about tachograph clocking hours whereas haulage guys are stuck on 9hours.

 

[doobin]

Some of the ag contractors are always cutting a fine line between agricultural work and haulage/construction. If it's not abig dump cart shifting muck on the job site or lowloader with excavator on the back it's hauling huge loads of wood chips to the biomass kiln. They run day and night doing this as don't need to worry about tachograph clocking hours whereas haulage guys are stuck on 9hours.

They are all ripping the piss, no ifs or buts.

 

[V8Druid]

well it's all there ..... "not owned by a famer .. a company .... 60 mile round trip .. " and as already said, unlicensed on two counts and running red ... "should use a HGV or haulier to deliver their products" ... I'd say it's a 'fair cop'

Unfortunately Grah, as you and I know the dynamics and wording of the law with farmers is often far stickier than Mr traffic plod can cope with....

"defective brakes" can be and most likely are non functioning brake lights.

Key thing is the O license (lack of) and Incorrect License..... this is what needs to be targeted, but unless you know the exact law and are prepared to go with that rather than off on tangents the issue will never change.

you really aren't giving them sufficient credit Rory ... traffic officers will know what they're about ... it is their job to know

 

[fred]

what defines agricultural use and how does one meet this critera in the mose cost effective way ?

Is tree farming agricultural for example ?

 

[doobin]

what defines agricultural use and how does one meet this critera in the mose cost effective way ?

Is tree farming agricultural for example ?

Has it's own special category, it's forestry. So is spraying, thinning and harvesting. What is not forestry is taking the finished product to the mill.

You can only meet that criteria when carrying out that operation. It doesn't matter if you spend 99% of your time growing a tree, if you then take that tractor down the road for ten minutes to lift a hot tub over a fence that's illegal.

Of course, it only matters if you get caught. Your 'tax workarounds' are exactly the same. Sure, you can sell a van to the company director for peanuts. The illegal bit comes when you as director don't declare capital gains when you sell that van on privately. Of course, most never get caught. But it's not a bona fide tax cutting measure, just as running a tractor to move your digger isn't a bona fide cost saving measure.

 

[JD450A]

Inputs and outputs of farming, forestry and horticulture and perfectly acceptable to transport using tractors provided you abide the radius laws and are "engaged in the agricultural operation"

The quoted bit is what matters, I could take a tractor and trailer into woodland, load off the forest floor and drive directly to a mill within the 20mile (from memory) radius and be legal.

If I stacked the timber by the road, then picked it up with traccy trailer I'd be committing haulage.

It all comes down to wording.

Transport of plant is even stickier. No radius limits and lots of misinterpretation. Contrary to popular belief the tractor and trailer do not need to be "vital to the job" as some come out with. However the owner of the tractor needs to be the one doing/paying for the work the plant is carrying out. So a contractor paid by the farmer to clean ditches can transport a subcontractors digger.... But not the other way around.

Likewise it needs to be involved in a "agricultural operation" fixing existing buildings, roads, ditching etc come under this bracket.... Digging out a new shed site does not.

Fine lines and wording.... It all wants rewriting and clarifying for the modern era!

 

[pettsy]

Followed this a couple of weeks ago, pulled by a 4220 Fastrac.

 

[doobin]

View attachment 30942

Followed this a couple of weeks ago, pulled by a 4220 Fastrac.

Un fkin believable.

 

[Monkeybusiness]

View attachment 30942

Followed this a couple of weeks ago, pulled by a 4220 Fastrac.

Looks ace!

 

[V8Druid]

fast track coming at me yesterday with a HUGE stock box behind it ... must've been 35+ feet long with rear axles, so a good 40+% load on the drawbar
Local guy here jacked his 18t stock box truck for a similar trailer behind a gert JD ..... travels a good 40 miles each way with it, a couple of times a week to an abattoir with his woolly-backs ... categorise that one @JD450A ??? pretty grey IMHDO

 

[fred]

Inputs and outputs of farming, forestry and horticulture and perfectly acceptable to transport using tractors provided you abide the radius laws and are "engaged in the agricultural operation"

The quoted bit is what matters, I could take a tractor and trailer into woodland, load off the forest floor and drive directly to a mill within the 20mile (from memory) radius and be legal.

If I stacked the timber by the road, then picked it up with traccy trailer I'd be committing haulage.

It all comes down to wording.

Transport of plant is even stickier. No radius limits and lots of misinterpretation. Contrary to popular belief the tractor and trailer do not need to be "vital to the job" as some come out with. However the owner of the tractor needs to be the one doing/paying for the work the plant is carrying out. So a contractor paid by the farmer to clean ditches can transport a subcontractors digger.... But not the other way around.

Likewise it needs to be involved in a "agricultural operation" fixing existing buildings, roads, ditching etc come under this bracket.... Digging out a new shed site does not.

Fine lines and wording.... It all wants rewriting and clarifying for the modern era!

so taking a salary from a company whose main function is tree growing would make the job agricultural in Law, interesting. Could be very useful for Ag Opp requirement places...

 

[fred]

Has it's own special category, it's forestry. So is spraying, thinning and harvesting. What is not forestry is taking the finished product to the mill.

You can only meet that criteria when carrying out that operation. It doesn't matter if you spend 99% of your time growing a tree, if you then take that tractor down the road for ten minutes to lift a hot tub over a fence that's illegal.

Of course, it only matters if you get caught. Your 'tax workarounds' are exactly the same. Sure, you can sell a van to the company director for peanuts. The illegal bit comes when you as director don't declare capital gains when you sell that van on privately. Of course, most never get caught. But it's not a bona fide tax cutting measure, just as running a tractor to move your digger isn't a bona fide cost saving measure.

i don't think you understand how capital gains works.

 

[DaveDCB]

well it's all there ..... "not owned by a famer .. a company .... 60 mile round trip .. " and as already said, unlicensed on two counts and running red ... "should use a HGV or haulier to deliver their products" ... I'd say it's a 'fair cop'

you really aren't giving them sufficient credit Rory ... traffic officers will know what they're about ... it is their job to know

Agreed that’s all fair enough! They obviously know who they are after, no doubt cutting through housing estates etc!

 

[DaveDCB]

Thinking about it.. when was the last time you saw police on the road? I appreciate there is undercover, but not many..