Operating 4x4 and trailer O license 'small trailer' exemption

[Maxus]

I wanted to share my joy at discovering that I am exempt from requiring an operator's license due to the 'small trailer' exemption rule.

This topic causes much confusion, so thought I'd post this to clarify, for those of us that use a 4x4 and tow in the course of our daily businesses operations, and not for hire and reward, we don't have to worry (I think?!) about O licence.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://diamonddrivertraining.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/small-trailer-leaflet.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiCqIii5rvzAhVAR_EDHRvFBTUQFnoECAQQAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw0m_HAQ0_ApVDORhTOvFoxV

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[Lancs Lad]

I'll just get a chair ..

 

[JD450A]

Go back to bed.

 

[Justme]

It can be difficult to comply with this exemption.

To have the 4x4 exempt tacho or O licence dual purpose exempt it needs to be under 2040kg unladen & virtually non of the modern ones are.

The small trailer exemption does not apply if carrying other peoples goods.
So easy to slip up if client buys an item but you move it. Lots of builders do this to stay under VAT.

Only applies in the UK.

Lots of the bigger trailers are over 1020kg unladen (not factory quoted but with all the fitted extras like spare wheel).

I would also look for the DVSA version of that as that linked doc is very old.

 

[Maxus]

What trailer would anyone running a 4x4 tow that weighs more than 1020kg unladen?

 

[JD450A]

Right, I shall type this only once.... there shall be no arguing or being thick......

O license definition of "HIRE OR REWARD" is that the goods carried are belonging to others and you are merely being paid for the Haulage...... Below are following examples. Any of these examples where a RESTRICTED O LICENSE would be needed the small trailers exemption comes into play...... Almost all 3500kg or under trailers fall under this exemption.

Ted Sells topsoil that he owns until the customer takes receipt..... He charges £20 for delivery. He would require a RESTRICTED O license to transport HIS product..... he is thus not "HIRE OR REWARD"

Ted is asked to transport Berties shed from A - B.... he agrees to charge £100 for the service..... He would require a Standard national O license to do the HAULAGE..... he is thus "HIRE OR REWARD"

Bertie sells his shed to Ted, Ted Sells it to Jeff for £1000 plus £200 delivery.... He would require a RESTRICTED O license to transport HIS product..... he is thus not "HIRE OR REWARD" as the Shed is is Jeffs Ownership and the transport is merely a formality.

Gary Owns a digger, he hires it to Andy for a weekly hire rate plus £100 delivery.... He would require a RESTRICTED O license to transport HIS product..... he is thus not "HIRE OR REWARD" as the Machine is in Garys Ownership and the transport is merely a formality.

Gary is asked to transport Teds Digger from A - B.... he agrees to charge £100 for the service..... He would require a Standard national O license to do the HAULAGE..... he is thus "HIRE OR REWARD"

Gary Hires Teds Digger for a job.... He would require a RESTRICTED O license to transport a machine that is in his legal possession..... he is thus not "HIRE OR REWARD" as the Machine is in Garys possession and the transport is merely a formality......

Same goes for running a Lorry...... Before any thicko argues here is Saint Gobain's O License...... Restricted and one of the largest building materials suppliers in the country with charges for delivery! https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/view-details/licence/235537

 

[Canal Navvy]

What trailer would anyone running a 4x4 tow that weighs more than 1020kg unladen?

Most Ifor Williams tipper trailers belonging to tree surgeons

 

[CPS]

Right, I shall type this only once.... there shall be no arguing or being thick......

O license definition of "HIRE OR REWARD" is that the goods carried are belonging to others and you are merely being paid for the Haulage...... Below are following examples. Any of these examples where a RESTRICTED O LICENSE would be needed the small trailers exemption comes into play...... Almost all 3500kg or under trailers fall under this exemption.

Ted Sells topsoil that he owns until the customer takes receipt..... He charges £20 for delivery. He would require a RESTRICTED O license to transport HIS product..... he is thus not "HIRE OR REWARD"

Ted is asked to transport Berties shed from A - B.... he agrees to charge £100 for the service..... He would require a Standard national O license to do the HAULAGE..... he is thus "HIRE OR REWARD"

Bertie sells his shed to Ted, Ted Sells it to Jeff for £1000 plus £200 delivery.... He would require a RESTRICTED O license to transport HIS product..... he is thus not "HIRE OR REWARD" as the Shed is is Jeffs Ownership and the transport is merely a formality.

Gary Owns a digger, he hires it to Andy for a weekly hire rate plus £100 delivery.... He would require a RESTRICTED O license to transport HIS product..... he is thus not "HIRE OR REWARD" as the Machine is in Garys Ownership and the transport is merely a formality.

Gary is asked to transport Teds Digger from A - B.... he agrees to charge £100 for the service..... He would require a Standard national O license to do the HAULAGE..... he is thus "HIRE OR REWARD"

Gary Hires Teds Digger for a job.... He would require a RESTRICTED O license to transport a machine that is in his legal possession..... he is thus not "HIRE OR REWARD" as the Machine is in Garys possession and the transport is merely a formality......

Same goes for running a Lorry...... Before any thicko argues here is Saint Gobain's O License...... Restricted and one of the largest building materials suppliers in the country with charges for delivery! https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/view-details/licence/235537

OK try this one

I sell a guy in Dublin a bucket or something, he's an account customer so he's not charged for 30 days...... I.e the bucket is still mine.
I deliver it also.
On my way to deliver it someone calls and asks am I empty on the way back and can I collect something for them, I'm a great guy and say no problem every good turn deserves another

Where do I stand?

 

[Canal Navvy]

Where do I stand?
[/QUOTE]

At the bar in the rugby club would be a good option

 

[Maxus]

OK try this one

I sell a guy in Dublin a bucket or something, he's an account customer so he's not charged for 30 days...... I.e the bucket is still mine.
I deliver it also.
On my way to deliver it someone calls and asks am I empty on the way back and can I collect something for them, I'm a great guy and say no problem every good turn deserves another

Where do I stand?

You are in an exotic quantum state called 'superposition', you are are both guilty and innocent at the same time.

 

[CPS]

You are in an exotic quantum state called 'superposition', you are are both guilty and innocent at the same time.

I can work with that

 

[JD450A]

Your Irish.... Laws don't count over there

 

[CPS]

Your Irish.... Laws don't count over there

Yea it was a trick question

 

[Giles]

What trailer would anyone running a 4x4 tow that weighs more than 1020kg unladen?

Most the tipping trailers are over that weight

 

[Maxus]

Specification options for IWT Twin Axle Tipper » Ifor Williams Trailers Ltd - Britain's Leading Trailer Manufacturer

The Ifor Williams Tipper is the UK’s most popular tipping trailer. Designed for strength and longevity, our tippers can be seen being used extensively on building sites across the UK. Choose from three model options, 8’, 10’ and 12’ long.

www.iwt.co.uk

They're actually all less than 1020kg believe it or not. I wonder if ramps cage sides etc. would be considered payload?

 

[Justme]

Specification options for IWT Twin Axle Tipper » Ifor Williams Trailers Ltd - Britain's Leading Trailer Manufacturer

The Ifor Williams Tipper is the UK’s most popular tipping trailer. Designed for strength and longevity, our tippers can be seen being used extensively on building sites across the UK. Choose from three model options, 8’, 10’ and 12’ long.

www.iwt.co.uk

They're actually all less than 1020kg believe it or not. I wonder if ramps cage sides etc. would be considered payload?

Any item fitted counts as unladen weight, so sides, ramps, jacks/stands, spare wheels ect all get included.

Just like for the vehicle DP under 2040kg rules rear load bed covers on pickups count.

 

[Smiffy]

Any item fitted counts as unladen weight, so sides, ramps, jacks/stands, spare wheels ect all get included.

Just like for the vehicle DP under 2040kg rules rear load bed covers on pickups count.

Ramps on tippers aren't fitted though.
I could understand mesh sides and Jack legs counting but ramps are completely separate of the trailer itself.
If you chucked the in the bed the would be a load so just because they are underslung why would it make a difference.
They aren't even physically connected. They are only the by gravity

 

[Justme]

Ramps on tippers aren't fitted though.
I could understand mesh sides and Jack legs counting but ramps are completely separate of the trailer itself.
If you chucked the in the bed the would be a load so just because they are underslung why would it make a difference.
They aren't even physically connected. They are only the by gravity

The Gov definition of unladen weight from the RTA.

unladen weight

the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.

PS only there by gravity is not allowed must be fixed down.

 

[Smiffy]

The Gov definition of unladen weight from the RTA.

unladen weight

the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.

PS only there by gravity is not allowed must be fixed down.

It says at the end loose tools and equipment of which ramps are equipment.
Ramps aren't part of the body or body parts.
And check ifor trailers they ramps are only held down by gravity in a tongue and groove slot no fixings.

 

[JD450A]

Ramps unless fixed are tools and/or equipment

You wouldn't count ratchet straps as part of the trailer.....