What’s everyone using for 3.5t towing?

[Flying Torquewrench]

At the moment I run a 22 year old Nissan Patrol 2.8td SWB and it is getting a bit slow compared to the rest of the traffic. Great car, goes everywhere but the fuel efficiency is not there at all.

I was thinking yesterday about starting a thread like this, so thank you @Storrsy !

Ideally I want a pick-up or 4x4 that happily tows 3.5 tonne but that I can also use for the commute to my day job, 180 miles return. Because of the high milage I was looking at something with about 70k on the clock. My favourites in the pick-up range would be a Isuzu Dmax but they are quite dear and (from what I have read) not brilliant on fuel.

4x4‘s: I have been looking at the VW Touareg and the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. The Touaregs are quite popular with the horse fraternity and get good reviews.

I have spoken to one guy with a Jeep GC who also tows plant and he is very happy with it. It sits at around 17/18 MPG when towing a 3.5 tonne trailer and high 20’s when empty. If considering a Jeep GC look for the Limited version as the Overland has airbags on the suspension which causes a few issues as it gets older. Also a lot of the Jeep GC‘s have no tow bar fitted, which is good in a way but it also costs about £1000 to have one fitted!

But with a modern 4x4 your storage space is a bit limited in the back for tools etc. Also if you are towing a digger near the upper end of the towing limit then with a van or pick-up you don’t need to have the buckets on the trailer.

 

[AusDave]

Do you guys in the UK have access to small trucks such as these https://isuzu.com.au/media/1252964/isz12781_n_series_brochure_aug20.pdf
Other Japanese manufacturers such as Hino and Mitsubishi also produce similar small trucks. They have a towing capacity of 3.5 tonne.
They're built like a proper truck only a bit smaller and have heavy duty chassis and running gear. In Australia the models rated 4.5 Tonne GVM can be driven by anyone with an ordinary car licence and they don't have the same roadworthy check requirements and high rego costs as a larger than 4.5 Tonne truck.

Because of the fact that anyone with a licence can drive these trucks. You can hire tippers, pantechs and tray body versions of these trucks from all the hire outlets just as you would a car.

Needless to say, tradies of all types, delivery operators and landscapers all have these trucks in Australia and they can be a really good deal secondhand. They are common as bums over here.

I suppose I can assume the UK has some regulation that keeps these trucks out as I've never seen them mentioned much outside of Australia and Asia. Just listening to the grief you guys go through having to figure out how to move heavy equipment with little Land Rovers, Rangers and D-Max etc is quite painful
Isn't there some industry association which could make a change for small contractors to use better and safer small trucks for the job without all the restrictions you have?

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

@AusDave we have something similar here too. However you can’t drive them on a normal car license. In addition anything over 3.5 tonne gross vehicle weight and you need an operating centre etc etc. It is just not worth the hassle if you can also move your equipment behind a 4x4, van or pick-up.

Below is a link to the governments website. It gives the details required to operate a vehicle over 3.5 tonne gross plated weight.

Print Being a goods vehicle operator - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

 

[hiluxman]

At the moment I run a 22 year old Nissan Patrol 2.8td SWB and it is getting a bit slow compared to the rest of the traffic. Great car, goes everywhere but the fuel efficiency is not there at all.

I was thinking yesterday about starting a thread like this, so thank you @Storrsy !

Ideally I want a pick-up or 4x4 that happily tows 3.5 tonne but that I can also use for the commute to my day job, 180 miles return. Because of the high milage I was looking at something with about 70k on the clock. My favourites in the pick-up range would be a Isuzu Dmax but they are quite dear and (from what I have read) not brilliant on fuel.

4x4‘s: I have been looking at the VW Touareg and the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. The Touaregs are quite popular with the horse fraternity and get good reviews.

I have spoken to one guy with a Jeep GC who also tows plant and he is very happy with it. It sits at around 17/18 MPG when towing a 3.5 tonne trailer and high 20’s when empty. If considering a Jeep GC look for the Limited version as the Overland has airbags on the suspension which causes a few issues as it gets older. Also a lot of the Jeep GC‘s have no tow bar fitted, which is good in a way but it also costs about £1000 to have one fitted!

But with a modern 4x4 your storage space is a bit limited in the back for tools etc. Also if you are towing a digger near the upper end of the towing limit then with a van or pick-up you don’t need to have the buckets on the trailer.

My range rover tows spot on and been on air means youve always got a level ride hight. Ive got the tdv8.

I had a jeep gc and it was good too.

Dont forget on isuzu to get a 3.5t tow you are robbing some off your gross vehicle weight to make it happen so you basically cant put owt more than a couple small bags of sand in the tub while towing 3.5t.

 

[Storrsy]

Yes, a mate has the 3.0l merc engined Jeep GC. He’s towed my 2.8tonner with it and it was pretty impressive. Pretty solid truck underneath too. A bit electricy and does seem to have the odd gremlin come up but good value for money none the less.

 

[Storrsy]

My range rover tows spot on and been on air means youve always got a level ride hight. Ive got the tdv8.

I had a jeep gc and it was good too.

Dont forget on isuzu to get a 3.5t tow you are robbing some off your gross vehicle weight to make it happen so you basically cant put owt more than a couple small bags of sand in the tub while towing 3.5t.

That was always the beauty of Landrover defenders like my 110 hicap. Load up 3500kg and take a 1t in the back and it coped to, had that setup for 11years.

 

[Furniss]

I had a Allisport sorted 90 Defender for many years and a trooper and a navara before but having recently gone to 7.5t lorry there is no going back, lovely to drive and on top of the job, fuel wise prob not a lot different to a 4X4 towing 3.5t
Occasionally use the trailer on the wagon and take the 3t Dumper and the 3t digger at the same time
Dont know why more of you guys with pickups and 3.5t trucks dont go that route but I think its a bit easier for us to run them here in France than the U.K

 

[Storrsy]

I had a Allisport sorted 90 Defender for many years and a trooper and a navara before but having recently gone to 7.5t lorry there is no going back, lovely to drive and on top of the job, fuel wise prob not a lot different to a 4X4 towing 3.5t
Occasionally use the trailer on the wagon and take the 3t Dumper and the 3t digger at the same time
Dont know why more of you guys with pickups and 3.5t trucks dont go that route but I think its a bit easier for us to run them here in France than the U.K

This would probably be the best bet.
But the thing I like about the 4x4 is that it takes the machine to the job I leave it there- usually with trailer and leaves me free to get about site with tools (usually off road) and then go straight home in it rather than back to the yard- swap vehicles etc.

 

[Routy56]

Been dragging around my 3.5T Ifor with digger etc for over 10 years now and have used many different tow vehicles.
The important things is my particular business model.
That is, taking tools and equipment for my own use as the driver and within 100km (formerly 50km) radius of my operating centre
First it was a Discovery 300Tdi - very stable and planted but was always working hard
Second was a Discovery 3 manual - absolutely superb and always in control
Third was a late model Discovery 3 HSE with a big re-map - again superb but too nice for towing a digger!
Fourth was a late model Discovery 2 TDi auto - absolutely superb and always in control
Currently a Nissan Navara NP300 Tekna from new 2 years ago - the best so far. Truckman top to hide my stuff from thieving bastards.

Nice place to be after a day work in summer or winter. Great fuel economy and plenty of power.
Just need to be aware of the Gross Train Weight of only 6000kgs. Don't come anywhere near that with a few buckets and hand tools
Now here's the thing - we 'sometimes' use it for private use towing our caravan
When we do it is absolutely superb. In fact all the Discos that we have had have been superb
We do love a good holiday - gonna do the NC500 next Spring

 

[V8Druid]

ramps are for wimps!!!!

like to see him do that with a micro

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

My range rover tows spot on and been on air means youve always got a level ride hight. Ive got the tdv8.

I had a jeep gc and it was good too.

Very true that being on air means that you always have a level ride. That is the downside with a JGC Limited as it is on springs and you have to load the trailer properly to keep the car level. I have only heard read some stories that when the JGC gets older the airbags start playing up. On the Jeep the cost to repair the air system seem quite high. Not sure how the LR compares as spares for the LR are probably a lot easier to obtain compared to the Jeep.

 

[Russell]

Air is good when it works but is problematic. My range tows lovely but breaks all the time. I do love it though, it's the quickest big thing I have driven. I bet the 5l supercharged ones are a laugh.
I thought my disco 2 td5 was crap but then it was a manual. It reminded me of LDV convoy vans.

 

[Storrsy]

To all of you running Ivecos or grafters etc. They don’t have a low box . I’m assuming they simply have the power to pull away on steep hills start without frying the clutch with a full 3.5ton on the back?
I’m always in and out of Lo box, for shunting around site but absolutely crucial for getting going again if I have to stop on say a 1/4 hill with the digger on the back. It would t happen if it wasn’t for lo box...

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Iveco Daily 1st is very low, don’t usually need it (pull away in 2nd happily).

 

[Bucket on wheels]

This one shouldn't have any problem with three and half Tons

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=535461046660254

 

[V8Druid]

Very true that being on air means that you always have a level ride. That is the downside with a JGC Limited as it is on springs and you have to load the trailer properly to keep the car level. I have only heard read some stories that when the JGC gets older the airbags start playing up. On the Jeep the cost to repair the air system seem quite high. Not sure how the LR compares as spares for the LR are probably a lot easier to obtain compared to the Jeep.

P38 is about 40 quid a corner for bags ... 2-300 quid for a genuine Dunlop compressor as a unit, or 20-ish quid for a new piston and seals ... lil' bar steward to do though ... got one under the bonnet and a spare complete unit on the shelf .... don't know how the Grand Cherokee compares.
very nearly bought a straight six one brand new when they first appeared in the UK .... were about £22k, then and a lot of bus for the bucks .. when the Disco appeared was about £19k and seriously considered one of them too ... made the JGC look even better VFM in comparison

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

For the JGC the air suspension parts are a bit dearer. £477 for the front corner bags if bought together, otherwise £265 each. The front bags are part of the strut and if you can’t separate the strut from the bag than it is £505 per corner. The rear bags are £119 each and a new compressor is £625. Those are the prices of aftermarket parts and not original Jeep!
What I read on the internet is that the bags dry out and crack as they get older.

There are a lot more Overland models (with air suspension) on the market compared to Limited models (springs). So it might work out better to buy an Overland and add in the cost of air suspension renewal.

I am seriously considering one as for a 2014 model with around 70k on the clock you are looking around £14k. For towing a 1.5 tonner around they are fine as buckets etc can go on the trailer. If towing a 2.7 tonne machine then they might not be ideal if you want to keep it legal.

Also considered the Land Rover but reliability seems to be a bit of an issue if you are unlucky. I am a member of a 4x4 forum and the LR members are quite regularly complaining about how often their LR is in the garage. But happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Routy56]

For the JGC the air suspension parts are a bit dearer. £477 for the front corner bags if bought together, otherwise £265 each. The front bags are part of the strut and if you can’t separate the strut from the bag than it is £505 per corner. The rear bags are £119 each and a new compressor is £625. Those are the prices of aftermarket parts and not original Jeep!
What I read on the internet is that the bags dry out and crack as they get older.

There are a lot more Overland models (with air suspension) on the market compared to Limited models (springs). So it might work out better to buy an Overland and add in the cost of air suspension renewal.

I am seriously considering one as for a 2014 model with around 70k on the clock you are looking around £14k. For towing a 1.5 tonner around they are fine as buckets etc can go on the trailer. If towing a 2.7 tonne machine then they might not be ideal if you want to keep it legal.

Also considered the Land Rover but reliability seems to be a bit of an issue if you are unlucky. I am a member of a 4x4 forum and the LR members are quite regularly complaining about how often their LR is in the garage. But happy to be proven wrong.

I've had 4 x Discovery models over the years and yes they can be unreliable if you don't keep on top of preventive maintenance.
The 2 x Discovery 3 was superb that I owned were superb BUT you must carry around a DTC reader and reset tool.
The canbus system is very sensitive and frequent puts it in to 'limp mode' for trivial things
For example, if a stop/tail filament goes so that a broken bit touches another it throws up errors and lowers the suspension.
Now very helpful if you are towing 3.5T
Then some of the Disc 3 engines self destruct when the cam belt tensioner fix casting breaks off.
A known weakness well documented on the Disco3 Forum
Once they are sorted then a great tow vehicle if you are handy with a box of spanners
To my mind the best all round LR is the Discovery 2 TD5. Later versions are well sorted and reasonably priced.
Kept mine on the air suspension with new bags and compressor.
These parts are as cheap as chips and nice to keep it on the level
Two years ago went to the 'dark side' with a Nissan Navara and part from fitting a decent tow bar have not used any spanners on it yet....

 

[fred]

my daily is 8 speed auto. first is silly low.

 

[Grahams]

I've had 4 x Discovery models over the years and yes they can be unreliable if you don't keep on top of preventive maintenance.
The 2 x Discovery 3 was superb that I owned were superb BUT you must carry around a DTC reader and reset tool.
The canbus system is very sensitive and frequent puts it in to 'limp mode' for trivial things
For example, if a stop/tail filament goes so that a broken bit touches another it throws up errors and lowers the suspension.
Now very helpful if you are towing 3.5T
Then some of the Disc 3 engines self destruct when the cam belt tensioner fix casting breaks off.
A known weakness well documented on the Disco3 Forum
Once they are sorted then a great tow vehicle if you are handy with a box of spanners
To my mind the best all round LR is the Discovery 2 TD5. Later versions are well sorted and reasonably priced.
Kept mine on the air suspension with new bags and compressor.
These parts are as cheap as chips and nice to keep it on the level
Two years ago went to the 'dark side' with a Nissan Navara and part from fitting a decent tow bar have not used any spanners on it yet....

This just about sums up why I moved away from Landrovers. If it is a weekend toy and you like working on it as well as driving then great, if not and you want to reliably get to and from work there are better vehicles out there.