New CPCS card

[craig]

Sorry, old thread revival.

An update, No reminder was sent out, or at least received. Did the touch screens, printed the forms off, and sent them off early march. Received new card today, give them the benefit of doubt on that, with this coronavirus stuff.
Checking the card, a category missing A10 excavator 180 over 5 tonne, still got the under 5 tonne on it.
Like Ollie, a new number.
It says on the back temporary card (industry accreditation), and has a December 2024 expiry. A quick look on the internet, seems its because some of the old categories, I don't have a nvq for, I did them on the old yellow CTA card(? I think) pre nvq, hence the 2024 expiry.
So I guess they will want more ££`s out of me, and another test to do.
I think you can do on site assessment, but it will still be money and a test?

I don`t know when the nvq`s came in, I added some categories around 2007/08, and fairly sure I did one then.
So it`s a bit of a heads up to you who've had a card for a while, that your next renewal may have a short date (12/24), and may need to do another test to do.

I emailed them, we`ll see what they say.

 

[Casedriver]

Hi chaps the whole thing is a farce now with little or no credibility in no way is it a skills card its quite simply a permit to work and it was suggested to me the other day that it's no better than the working mans brown envelope to keep him in a job
I am aware if a chap who got his duck ticket in the time it took to sign the paperwork and the following week at JCB when sat in a Hydradig he was advised to knock the axle lock off replied with 'Whats an axle lock what's it for" !!
On the flip side people like myself that paid good money for CITB back in the day are now deemed to only have Grandfather rights and at our next renewal will have to sit an assessment for each category we hold at just under £190 a pop If the questions are in fact the ones that did the rounds on FB not one of them is actually relevant to your experience or ability to productivly and safely operate said machine

 

[Routy56]

Hi chaps the whole thing is a farce now with little or no credibility in no way is it a skills card its quite simply a permit to work and it was suggested to me the other day that it's no better than the working mans brown envelope to keep him in a job
I am aware if a chap who got his duck ticket in the time it took to sign the paperwork and the following week at JCB when sat in a Hydradig he was advised to knock the axle lock off replied with 'Whats an axle lock what's it for" !!
On the flip side people like myself that paid good money for CITB back in the day are now deemed to only have Grandfather rights and at our next renewal will have to sit an assessment for each category we hold at just under £190 a pop If the questions are in fact the ones that did the rounds on FB not one of them is actually relevant to your experience or ability to productivly and safely operate said machine View attachment 14493

Even that screen shot is full of spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and bull
It would not inspire confidence if I was to go down that road again

 

[doobin]

So glad I don’t have to deal with that bullshit!

 

[Gunners]

I'm still waiting for a reply from CITB to my question - asked through my training company - why my card only lasts 2 years. And I haven't received my telehandler ticket yet, which was done months before C19 became a thing and I should have needed it by now for Chelsea! How long does it take to answer an email and or issue a card!

 

[V8Druid]

Even that screen shot is full of spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and bull
It would not inspire confidence if I was to go down that road again

that is appalling ...."manor" ........ what a cretin 'praps he's Chinese

 

[Bri963]

So what’s the process now? Guessing it won’t be as simple as filling the form, doing the touch-screen and paying? I had several categories under grandfathers rights but when the log book scheme came in I was assessed on everything at Bircham. Unfortunately when I asked five years ago they had no record of me doing that, so I’m guessing what I paid went into the assessor’s retirement fund.

 

[craig]

So what’s the process now? Guessing it won’t be as simple as filling the form, doing the touch-screen and paying? I had several categories under grandfathers rights but when the log book scheme came in I was assessed on everything at Bircham. Unfortunately when I asked five years ago they had no record of me doing that, so I’m guessing what I paid went into the assessor’s retirement fund.

As far as I can make out, like @Casedriver said, categories which where grandfather rights, or pre nqv`s will expire in December 2024, so will need a nqv doing to renew them.
I`m getting the impression, it`s do it or lose it kind of situation.

 

[V8Druid]

As far as I can make out, like @Casedriver said, categories which where grandfather rights, or pre nqv`s will expire in December 2024, so will need a nqv doing to renew them.
I`m getting the impression, it`s do it or lose it kind of situation.

yet another way, to extract yet more money, for a scheme that has no legal standing whatsoever .... money for the old boys club "those who can do, do .... those who can't, teach it " !!!!!!

 

[craig]

yet another way, to extract yet more money, for a scheme that as no legal standing whatsoever .... money for the old boys club "those who can do, do .... those who can't, teach it " !!!!!!

Just about sums it up, you`ll end up with people with20/30+ years experience deemed incompetent by pointy shoe non jobs in an office, because they`ve not got an nqv.

 

[pettsy]

Just about sums it up, you`ll end up with people with20/30+ years experience deemed incompetent by pointy shoe non jobs in an office, because they`ve not got an nqv.

Similar situation with my old boss (pretty much retired) that helps me out. 35+ years experience but I have to sign off any work he does for me as he can’t justify the certification costs.

 

[Lynchy]

See there's a training firm doing cpcs n PTS 'free' tickets,well as long as the tax payer pays,do the training on line then do test after lockdown.....so 360,dumper,roller....online?
Total scam the government ,dole,funded training,knew a guy did a 360 slew telehandler for job centre,one candidate,charged the job centre full price for three days then put other,paying people through as well on those days ?

 

[fred]

The issue is, when something goes wrong and an accident happens on your site where someone is hurt.

When HSE come calling, and they will, you will have to prove to a Judge's satisfaction that the individual concerned was not only competent but experienced enough to operate said plant. For small outfits/1 man bands you can probably blag it by demonstrating continued use over a long time etc. If you employ/contract someone good luck with that.

No option but to use the industry recognised approval schemes if you expect your liability insurer to stand by you.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg144.pdf

 

[JD450A]

It's easy to demonstrate Competence and training in house... formal training days with signed written paperwork and photographic evidence in a folder captioned by the lads themselves to say what they are doing....

E.g Machine familiarisation with a new item of plant, with the lads photographing and writing about the check point locations, SWL's, Machine condition etc!

Just about having a bit of history to back up your claims.....

Of course the only issue is if your s**t and trying to blag it..... HSE rocks up and watches you for a few minutes to see you flailing round like a C*** and that anyone can see your incompetent

 

[V8Druid]

The issue is, when something goes wrong and an accident happens on your site where someone is hurt.

When HSE come calling, and they will, you will have to prove to a Judge's satisfaction that the individual concerned was not only competent but experienced enough to operate said plant. For small outfits/1 man bands you can probably blag it by demonstrating continued use over a long time etc. If you employ/contract someone good luck with that.

No option but to use the industry recognised approval schemes if you expect your liability insurer to stand by you.

View attachment 14566

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg144.pdf

the same with all this s**t ..... the onus is on the owner of the said plant to determine the competence of the operator .... none of my guys had FLT tickets ..... and they were all exceptionally competent to operate them, through in house training and experience.

Had a factory inspector and his apprentice turn up one day and she wanted to see their tickets ... argued black was white that they were required ... and that my satisfaction with their competence wasn't enough ..... until i asked her 'mentor' to kindly set her ****ing straight .... as the owner of said equipment, I was not going to let any numb-nuts loose on my expensive equipment ... after being put straight by said 'mentor' she was in a hurry to leave.
all these ****ing tickets are bollox ...

a.n.other example .... when CITB started requiring cards for crane operators on CITB sites, had to put all my operators through a complete ****ing bollox course ... local training school said yeh we can do it ... "can you bring one of your cranes with you .. we ain't got one" FFS !! ... "no, but I'll hire you one for the day, seeing as you're charging us an exorbitant amount for this crap."

sat and listened to a guy I knew and who had never sat in a crane, spout off all morning, then it was practical time.
he led us out and was about to climb into MY crane to show me how to use it .... Grove TMS 180 ... with virtually no FOW (free on wheels) duties ... he's heading for the top cab to crack the boom up ... on wheels-no jacks set ...

at this point I ask to see his company's insurance cert.s to cover the damage he is about to do to my machine, by putting it on its side.
That was the end of his part in our instruction ...... after everyone had demonstrated 100+% more competence in rigging and using said Grove, which he knew sweet FA about, or cranes in general, we left with our pass cert.s ...... and I later wrote a very stiff letter of complaint, to their accreditation authority ... and that was the end of their crane training courses

Lions led by donkeys

 

[V8Druid]

It's easy to demonstrate Competence and training in house... ............Of course the only issue is if your s**t and trying to blag it..... HSE rocks up and watches you for a few minutes to see you flailing round like a C*** and that anyone can see your incompetent

yeh well that'd put the kybosh on any blag ...... I repeat .... all these tickets are ****ing bollox !! ...... and have no standing in law

 

[Jimbo69]

I started a new job with a company about 7 years ago, was taken on as digger driver. I told them I had the CPCS for 180 but had experience on 360’s but no ticket. First job I turned up to was on a 1.5 tonner, so that was fine, the contracts manager and director of the company authorised me to use it, said as long as it was on their own sites it was fine. Went to another of their sites a few weeks later and the site agent wouldn’t let me on the 5-tonner. I argued with the little prick that a CPCS card wasn’t a legal requirement but he wouldn’t listen. I told him to phone the owner of the company and to come and find me when he had, 5 minutes later he came to get me, looking a bit sheepish

 

[Gunners]

Speaking of the devil, I received my red CPCS card for the telehandler yesterday. Did the training back in early Feb. The hold up to be fair seems to have been with the training company in passing it on to me as the letter was dated late March from CPCS. On another note, I'm also struggling to get someone to come and inspect my excavator for its yearly check. Something I pay for with my insurance. I get that there is a pandemic on but you try telling the site agent that - no ticket no job - simple as.

Agents get a lot of stick and often rightly so. But when it comes to safety, they just follow rules set by others. I worked for developers who would only accept CPCS cards. It didn't matter what the law said, that was their policy. So anyone turning up on site with an NPORS etc were turned away - including the entire workforce of the groundworkers that had won the contract! Despite all subcontractor safety paperwork going through our in house safety department, they had missed the fact that they didn't do CPCS, they did NPORS. It ticked the box for SMAS and CHAS but not the developers rules. So I turned the entire workforce away first day (laughing my head off) and promptly got bollocked by my construction director for doing so. We had a lot of frank conversations me and him, really didn't see eye to eye and I fought hard for the lads on the ground in several areas.
To the guys on the ground that day I would have come across as a right twat, but I had to follow orders and behind the scenes I was always fighting to improve stuff. But these developers are stubborn bastards who nobody says no to. So when you do they get all hot and bothered!

 

[V8Druid]

Speaking of the devil, I received my red CPCS card for the telehandler yesterday. Did the training back in early Feb. The hold up to be fair seems to have been with the training company in passing it on to me as the letter was dated late March from CPCS. On another note, I'm also struggling to get someone to come and inspect my excavator for its yearly check. Something I pay for with my insurance. I get that there is a pandemic on but you try telling the site agent that - no ticket no job - simple as.

Agents get a lot of stick and often rightly so. But when it comes to safety, they just follow rules set by others. I worked for developers who would only accept CPCS cards. It didn't matter what the law said, that was their policy. So anyone turning up on site with an NPORS etc were turned away - including the entire workforce of the groundworkers that had won the contract! Despite all subcontractor safety paperwork going through our in house safety department, they had missed the fact that they didn't do CPCS, they did NPORS. It ticked the box for SMAS and CHAS but not the developers rules. So I turned the entire workforce away first day (laughing my head off) and promptly got bollocked by my construction director for doing so. We had a lot of frank conversations me and him, really didn't see eye to eye and I fought hard for the lads on the ground in several areas.
To the guys on the ground that day I would have come across as a right twat, but I had to follow orders and behind the scenes I was always fighting to improve stuff. But these developers are stubborn bastards who nobody says no to. So when you do they get all hot and bothered!

if they're charging for inspections, they must get it done, especially as it's a legal requirement ... Vulcan used to do all mine ... cranes, FLTs, air receivers. Strangely they were always happy to accept my lifting inspectors 6 monthly inspections for all my loose gear (chains, slings, etc. ???) who also did the 6 monthly inspections on everything else, bar the air receivers ??? Inspectors would be key workers, so see no reason they can't attend and sort your inspection PDQ

 

[Gunners]

if they're charging for inspections, they must get it done, especially as it's a legal requirement ... Vulcan used to do all mine ... cranes, FLTs, air receivers. Strangely they were always happy to accept my lifting inspectors 6 monthly inspections for all my loose gear (chains, slings, etc. ???) who also did the 6 monthly inspections on everything else, bar the air receivers ??? Inspectors would be key workers, so see no reason they can't attend and sort your inspection PDQ

Agreed Druid, I've made a fuss about it as I understand the current situation makes things awkward but somethings need to continue to allow the rest of us to work!