Operated Mini/Micro Digger Size & Daily Rates

[doobin]

have a tipping trailer and be able to hall stuff away and stone and sand in and i think you would be away.

That was the second reason for geting the Bobcat. Can take it to site locally in the back of the tipper, run a couple of loads back to the stockpile at the yard and still be cheaper for the customer than them getting a skip in.

 

[Old Operator]

I would be talking good used, Re Bobcat, I think up to & including the E14 they are simple gear pumps - cheaper to repair/replace & not so dependant on hyd oil with the correct additives, that a previous owner may have added. If I did go 1.2 size, the hammer & thumb still OK but give up the crusher bucket. Is there a separate mini tracked crusher to add later. I have seen the Chinese crushers with 2 giant flywheels with vee belt grooves in them (add your own engine & mount on a trailer/ tracked chassis). I see many clients pay to dump one load of crap, then bring in hardcore - two lots of transport, rehandling etc. Just got me thinking.
Re the tracked barrow, would this be the walk behind sort & with high discharge to suit a Ro Ro skip's loadover height?

 

[Brendan]

Walk behinds will tip over the side of an 8 yard skip, I have mine on site every now and again and now cpcs ticket for them as they are seen as a power barrow.
Only thing with them is filling skips takes a bit longer than just heaping it up. As I find you have to stop short raise it up, then track to edge of skip before tipping and then at some point either need to bring the machine out to it or get in the skip with a shovel as the htd5 and similiar can't reach the middle. I heard the larger Kubota one slides out once it's raised so can tip into the middle of a skip.

Can't see the point of running a crushing bucket in such a small machine, you can get micro crushers but again not sure what sort of pay off there would be. By the time you have brought it in and crushed it you may have been better off just getting muckaway and fresh stone plus to buy one the ones I've seen for sale tend to be a few years old and 10k.

I try not to use my tipper trailer for shifting muck as generally it's just easier to get a grab in. I occasionally grab the odd couple of ton but again generally cheaper to get it delivered plus saves time

 

[doobin]

I would be talking good used, Re Bobcat, I think up to & including the E14 they are simple gear pumps - cheaper to repair/replace & not so dependant on hyd oil with the correct additives, that a previous owner may have added. If I did go 1.2 size, the hammer & thumb still OK but give up the crusher bucket. Is there a separate mini tracked crusher to add later. I have seen the Chinese crushers with 2 giant flywheels with vee belt grooves in them (add your own engine & mount on a trailer/ tracked chassis). I see many clients pay to dump one load of crap, then bring in hardcore - two lots of transport, rehandling etc. Just got me thinking.
Re the tracked barrow, would this be the walk behind sort & with high discharge to suit a Ro Ro skip's loadover height?

If you have to replace a pump on a mini it's been abused. Gear or piston makes no odds, they take the same bog standard oil.
Small crusher etc pretty much pointless- I can't see how you'd make it pay.

 

[Gunners]

I looked into getting a crusher bucket and whilst I love the idea and the theory of saving loads out and back in - it just doesn't add up for me. I have been told from several people who run them (albeit on bigger machines) that a crusher bucket will crush about what the machine weighs an hour. So for me, 3t. This can slow down or speed up depending on the type and size of gear being crushed but a rough average of 3t for 3t machine.
In theory on the average driveway dig, I might take , maybe 2 loads out of old drive and soil for reduce dig and bring back in 1 load of crush/ type 1 as sub base. At 16t this would take me 5 1/2 hours solid crushing. By the time you've had a phone call or two from the engcon rep, cigarette, tea, piss, whatever takes your fancy that's at least 6 hours so a good majority of the day. At £300/day that's cost about £230 for you to crush. Which is pretty much what it would cost to buy it in. So you've saved on the cost of mucking it away in theory! Although the hardcore element of the dig might not make up 1 of the two loads?? But lets work on that assumption.
The downsides from what I could see are you've got to have somewhere to heap and store the pile before and after crushing. The buckets cost £12ish grand if I remember correctly for a 3t machine so you've got to save a fair few loads to pay that back plus its maintenance, teeth, jaws etc. Its another thing to get stolen/ insure so your overheads increase and its heavy so wont go on trailer with a 2.7t digger.
Just didnt seem worth it to me on the smaller scale. I get why the bigger guys run them, they can process 20t in an hour and that would probably pay even with the increased cost of purchase for a bigger bucket. Better to leave the guys who spend millions on their screeners and crushers to do the work for you.

 

[fred]

we hired in a crushing machine when we demo'd a house. I wouldnt bother again to be honest.

It made the hardcore generated near enough free so no gain, but it took 2 days was noisy and dusty so the neighbours really liked it, not.

I could see it working for small scale as it would be another selling factor, and the chap is selling his time at the end of the day so if he can stay on site and crush an 8 wheeler load instead of paying a £200+ muck away then he just made an extra £200.

Under £6k https://www.bavcrushers.co.uk/bav-cb2.html

 

[TiltyShaun]

I looked into getting a crusher bucket and whilst I love the idea and the theory of saving loads out and back in - it just doesn't add up for me. I have been told from several people who run them (albeit on bigger machines) that a crusher bucket will crush about what the machine weighs an hour. So for me, 3t. This can slow down or speed up depending on the type and size of gear being crushed but a rough average of 3t for 3t machine.
In theory on the average driveway dig, I might take , maybe 2 loads out of old drive and soil for reduce dig and bring back in 1 load of crush/ type 1 as sub base. At 16t this would take me 5 1/2 hours solid crushing. By the time you've had a phone call or two from the engcon rep, cigarette, tea, piss, whatever takes your fancy that's at least 6 hours so a good majority of the day. At £300/day that's cost about £230 for you to crush. Which is pretty much what it would cost to buy it in. So you've saved on the cost of mucking it away in theory! Although the hardcore element of the dig might not make up 1 of the two loads?? But lets work on that assumption.
The downsides from what I could see are you've got to have somewhere to heap and store the pile before and after crushing. The buckets cost £12ish grand if I remember correctly for a 3t machine so you've got to save a fair few loads to pay that back plus its maintenance, teeth, jaws etc. Its another thing to get stolen/ insure so your overheads increase and its heavy so wont go on trailer with a 2.7t digger.
Just didnt seem worth it to me on the smaller scale. I get why the bigger guys run them, they can process 20t in an hour and that would probably pay even with the increased cost of purchase for a bigger bucket. Better to leave the guys who spend millions on their screeners and crushers to do the work for you.

You are not far out with those comments. There is a Baughans bucket at around £4k and the Digbits one is £6k ish last time I asked. If diesel keeps going up the cist to cart will at some point swing people towards recycling on site. I used to run a TCP mini crusher and bang for buck it was better than a crusher bucket. We have someone locally with a red rhino 5000 but you need enough material to make it worth while!!

 

[Old Operator]

So I could expect perhaps 1.5t per hr, - from memory shattered rock was thought to be about 2t per cu yd. That would work out at the 1.5t producing about a builders bag per hr. Not really worth tying the machine up for. I do remember a job where the hardcore was broken with jack hammers / hand tools to about half brick size to fill gabions. This was done because access was so terrible it became worthwhile both ways, the house owner did much of it over time. I think the ability to crush is not a priority just now. Thanks for the real world info on this.
Is running a jack hammer off a large micro or mini viable? I seem to remember jack hammers being advertised plugged into the very first JCB mini - about 1983

Something that bugs me is this, what do you do about moving a dead mini digger (say the engine has blown & it is in a vandal prone area). With no hyd pressure is there any way to take the brakes off to allow it to be towed / winched on to a trailer for repairs in a more secure place. It has never come up as I have never owned one, but they seem immobile if the engine does not run - unlike most other machines

 

[fred]

So I could expect perhaps 1.5t per hr, - from memory shattered rock was thought to be about 2t per cu yd. That would work out at the 1.5t producing about a builders bag per hr. Not really worth tying the machine up for. I do remember a job where the hardcore was broken with jack hammers / hand tools to about half brick size to fill gabions. This was done because access was so terrible it became worthwhile both ways, the house owner did much of it over time. I think the ability to crush is not a priority just now. Thanks for the real world info on this.
Is running a jack hammer off a large micro or mini viable? I seem to remember jack hammers being advertised plugged into the very first JCB mini - about 1983

Something that bugs me is this, what do you do about moving a dead mini digger (say the engine has blown & it is in a vandal prone area). With no hyd pressure is there any way to take the brakes off to allow it to be towed / winched on to a trailer for repairs in a more secure place. It has never come up as I have never owned one, but they seem immobile if the engine does not run - unlike most other machines

yes can get peckers for 1 tonners, its a bit of a bone shaker though!

Dead machines can be lifter, telehander, hiab or bigger digger! a 16 tonner volvo duck can lift over 4 ton if memory serves.

 

[Brendan]

Minimum 2.5t machine for the crusher buckets so would have to be a separate tracked crusher to go with a micro/mini although most crushers that size they recommend to load by hand
You can run jack hammers off them and the takeuchi (no idea about other manufacturers) have a lock position on the foot pedal to keep flow going so no one has to be sat on the machine or no need to wedge it in place. Only issues are no auto rev so has be nonstop at something like 75% throttle and ties the machine up. So your better off with a hydraulic pack and breaker or some of the big electric hammers have similiar forces and run off 110v.
Complete machine failures are rare but would have to be lifted as if you drag them you can damage the final drives. To be fair it's not something I ever worry about otherwise you would never run your own kit if it breaks down will just repair on site

 

[Gunners]

I assume by jack hammer you mean machine mounted not hand held? A machine mounted one is a worthwhile investment if you have regular work for it and can be a good earner as round here its an extra £50 for the breaker. Sometimes you only use it for 20mins so it doesn't get much wear. I'd take it home at night though, they are very attractive to steal. I bought a brand new one which got stolen 6 months later - it was tucked in under the blade with arm on it but they cut my hydraulic lines and jacked up the bucket with a long bit of timber. Got to hand it to them, always creative. Anyway, replaced it with a refurbished one from Dr Pecker on here for half the price of new and that would be the way I would go again as it doesn't get used every day or for long when I do use it. And Dr Pecker has been great for the odd spare I've needed.

As for hand held ones - we are machine drivers boys not labourers!

 

[doobin]

Old operator- dozens of us on here run minis. In the nicest possible way, stop mulling over 'problems' such as gear vs piston pumps, or what to do in the even of total failure (if you can't move it neither can the gypos! ) and just jump in. You've been mulling over for nigh on four years now. I bought my old Shaeff for £5.5k, with trailer, and sold it for £4.5k with no trailer and 2000 extra hours on the clock. Now I have minis on finance which cost me around £500/month for the pair, including half a dozen buckets. Two days work a month at £250 (I charge more) a day and they're paid for. Assets. Money in the bank effectively.

You only need one machine. Have you got one day a month's work?

Re atachements- I'd start with the digger and buckets, and add attachments when you see what kind of work you get offered. If you're buying new on the tick, I'd add a ripper tooth to the deal- very handy. And quick hitch should go without saying.

My other attachments are a grapple (around 50% of my work- niche),a post knocker, a tilting quick hitch, a land rake, a clay spade, a spring tine rake and a grading beam. Added as and when they came up cheap or I had a need for them. Start with the basics- until you have a digger you won't get any work for one anyway!

An old boy I know always says, if you get a machine the work will come to you. It's true.

 

[V8Druid]

yes can get peckers for 1 tonners, its a bit of a bone shaker though!

Dead machines can be lifter, telehander, hiab or bigger digger! a 16 tonner volvo duck can lift over 4 ton if memory serves.

My hydrema 15ton duck will lift 10t Fred .... it's pretty amazing what a duck'll handle

 

[Bri963]

My hydrema 15ton duck will lift 10t Fred .... it's pretty amazing what a duck'll handle

At what radius, Graham? I used to operate a 13 tonne Cat, think it was a 212 and it struggled to lift a four tonne Rammax off a wagon without tipping over. That was blade and feet down.

 

[V8Druid]

At what radius, Graham? I used to operate a 13 tonne Cat, think it was a 212 and it struggled to lift a four tonne Rammax off a wagon without tipping over. That was blade and feet down.

load chart below Bri ..... 3m, blocked, 360, with 500kgs of bucket attached, but a usable range .... she is a hell of a lifter, even FOW / on rubber.

 

[Bri963]

Impressive, Graham, but I suspect the old 212 chart would have been close to that, reality is there's only a very small sweet spot where you can lift maximum. However, thanks for taking the time to put that up.

 

[V8Druid]

Impressive, Graham, but I suspect the old 212 chart would have been close to that, reality is there's only a very small sweet spot where you can lift maximum. However, thanks for taking the time to put that up.

agreed .... but it is do-able ..... .... have gotten real used to mine now and never cease to be amazed at what she'll pick up at full stretch, or near and bring to her ..... 'lifting' used to be a part of my game and have a well tuned 'bum' for what i can get away with

MX16 doing 10t

MX18 doing 8t at a fair rad.

MX18 with tilty and tilty grader

they are a HELL of a lifter ..... real powerful tools

 

[JD450A]

Complete machine failures are rare but would have to be lifted as if you drag them you can damage the final drives. To be fair it's not something I ever worry about otherwise you would never run your own kit if it breaks down will just repair on site

Depends on the machine and the final drive setup. You can remove either the sun gear or planets from the final drives on most machines allowing them to be towed offsite/onto lorry/out of the way..... Other option is to plumb a slave machine or beaver pack into the incoming and return on a dead machines valve block, all depends on the nature of the failure, risk of hydraulic contamination etc etc.

As above you can lift them offsite but the nature of most jobs means either the access isn't there or it isn't cost effective. We have had contingency plans in the past regarding engine or hydraulic failure on tidal jobs which involved dropping the final drive oils on the 7t machines, removing the internals and then winching them out with either winch tractor, Tirfor or a second machine.

 

[Old Operator]

I admit that I have been looking into all this for a long time. The long term job on the slopes disappeared when the owner became more and more ill - he now has a rare condition that got so bad his wife has power of attorney over all, & the property is about to be sold. Shame for him as he was once my engineer on jobs. On top of this I look after my 90 yr old dad in the old family house (he uses two rooms & the bathroom, all else is shut up) I also run a large allotment with the wife's help to feed us all.
Both our houses are heated by woodstoves, we never buy any wood I provide it all. I do still get out on machines now & again & always enjoy it & the money helps. I wish I had £1 for every time a client has said to me you should get a machine. I do have stored an old 5 star Gopher 180 - needs part fabricating - I often wish I had put more money into a better machine that was a goer from the start. Rory you seem to have considered the breakdown problem pretty well & have good plans should it happen.
I was at one time the working partner & half owner of a 3C - I kept this going but did notice I seemed on my own in any breakdown so had to have all the answers myself.
Thought there would be a big rate jump between the micro's & say a 1.5 tonner - but apparently not so. I do remember hiring a Chieftan 1.1G in the 90's - it seems that size class has re appeared - I thought there was nothing between 0.8 & 1.5t. I do agree that work always finds a man who has a machine - it did with our JCB. Just thought I would explain some of the difficulties why I never went ahead. I have a collapsing dry stone wall to fix at my dad's before I can even concentrate on maybe fixing the Gopher - Wife says fix it, sell it against a better machine. Was really trying to sound out if this was a wise move & what money I might expect if I did. Pete

 

[V8Druid]

I admit that I have been looking into all this for a long time. The long term job on the slopes disappeared when the owner became more and more ill - he now has a rare condition that got so bad his wife has power of attorney over all, & the property is about to be sold. Shame for him as he was once my engineer on jobs. On top of this I look after my 90 yr old dad in the old family house (he uses two rooms & the bathroom, all else is shut up) I also run a large allotment with the wife's help to feed us all.
Both our houses are heated by woodstoves, we never buy any wood I provide it all. I do still get out on machines now & again & always enjoy it & the money helps. I wish I had £1 for every time a client has said to me you should get a machine. I do have stored an old 5 star Gopher 180 - needs part fabricating - I often wish I had put more money into a better machine that was a goer from the start. Rory you seem to have considered the breakdown problem pretty well & have good plans should it happen.
I was at one time the working partner & half owner of a 3C - I kept this going but did notice I seemed on my own in any breakdown so had to have all the answers myself.
Thought there would be a big rate jump between the micro's & say a 1.5 tonner - but apparently not so. I do remember hiring a Chieftan 1.1G in the 90's - it seems that size class has re appeared - I thought there was nothing between 0.8 & 1.5t. I do agree that work always finds a man who has a machine - it did with our JCB. Just thought I would explain some of the difficulties why I never went ahead. I have a collapsing dry stone wall to fix at my dad's before I can even concentrate on maybe fixing the Gopher - Wife says fix it, sell it against a better machine. Was really trying to sound out if this was a wise move & what money I might expect if I did. Pete

looks a similar thing to my Manor/Fleming Micron, but a bit more of a 'lump'

http://www.oilyhands.co.uk/gopher_towable_diggers.htm

surprising what these things make on Ebay ..... last micron I saw went for 1800 quid