Chages are a coming

[V8Druid]

We need to get apprenticeships that pay a half decent wage to get our young people interested again and not pricing them out of the market by having to get them on all of these Citb cards for everything, The problem has been the wages being driven down by economic migrants coming over and British companies taking advantage of the low wages, while the wages are low you cannot get yongsters interestead in becoming operators , or taking things like Plumbing, Platering, Bricklaying etc. If wages were higher then you would but people like Charlie Mullins ( Pimlico Plumbers) is againt this as he likes his cheap eastern european labour which give him greater profit. A lot of companies are using loopholes to pay less than minimum wage which is incidently much higher here than it is in EU countries, They do not directly pay their staff they pay the money to an Eastern European employment agency which means they can pay below the UK min wage as there staff are agency, A few years back there were loads of youngsters doing these aprenteships as the prospects and money were good the last few years have Fu**ed this country, We need to get on a ditch the EU rules and regs including the new one which is due to come in where even if you have a piece of equipment on your own private property it has to be insured! How are they going to police that one! it's just common sense lets get on with it.

the attraction of the apprenticeship schemes was the resultant acquisition of skills to obtain a decent wage ..
in 1980 I paid more tax then the apprentices who worked alongside me, earned in a wage ..... but they learned from that experience, to advance their skills to a point they were able to earn their corn.
No industry can afford to carry apprentices on large wages .. it's too cut throat/competitive to win work as it is, without 'passengers', which is effectively what they are for a very long time .
back in the day this was realised and accepted .... today, as Pettsy said they all " expect to join a trade and be on level pay terms with someone fully qualified. " who has been through the system that they are loathe/don't want to / won't become a part of ... no such thing as a free lunch, but they all expect it

 

[Antony Holmes]

the attraction of the apprenticeship schemes was the resultant acquisition of skills to obtain a decent wage ..
in 1980 I paid more tax then the apprentices who worked alongside me, earned in a wage ..... but they learned from that experience, to advance their skills to a point they were able to earn their corn.
No industry can afford to carry apprentices on large wages .. it's too cut throat/competitive to win work as it is, without 'passengers', which is effectively what they are for a very long time .
back in the day this was realised and accepted .... today, as Pettsy said they all " expect to join a trade and be on level pay terms with someone fully qualified. " who has been through the system that they are loathe/don't want to / won't become a part of ... no such thing as a free lunch, but they all expect it

you are so right about pay rates when I started as a young lad on a plant hire firm back in the eighties my pay rate was £1.25 per hour an experienced operator was on a fiver an hour 4 x my rate nowadays very few would be on double so the firm I worked for could drop the rate a few bob to keep a hire and you would get the chance to learn

 

[topkit]

It's not just in this industry where young people expect to be on top wages or they want to be a celebrity (ffs)! Unfortunately we have a vast amount of young people that now go on to further education where the go to college and then on to University then they want to take a year out by then most of them are in their mid twenties with huge student loans and they expect to land a fantastic job on fantastic wages but the problem there is most of them don't as they have wasted 5 or six years studying modern history or leisure and Tourism or Art, Social Media studies, so most of them never get a job linked to what they have studied for, Its down to the government to offer decent incentives to businesses large and small to encourage more people into Engineering, building and Construction if they want this country to thrive they are going to have to get young people doing proper jobs again.

 

[V8Druid]

It's not just in this industry where young people expect to be on top wages, Unfortunately we have a vast amount of young people that now go on to further education where the go to college and then on to University then they want to take a year out by then most of them are in their mid twenties w ith huge student loans and they expect to land a fantastic job on fantastic wages but the problem there is most of them don't as they have wasted 5 or six years studying modern history or leisure and Tourism or Art so most of them never get a job linked to what they have studied for, Its down to the government to offer decent incentives to businesses large and small to encourage more people into Engineering, building and Construction if they want this country to thrive they are going to have to get young people doing proper jobs again.

or some other bollocks subject that has no prospects at all ..... Totally spot on TK

 

[GazCro]

Thing is with apprenticeships or similar schemes often businesses get paid for taking school leavers/ trainees on with the idea being they then add a bit on top to make the wages up but then don't. I left school and served my time with local plumbing outfit (10 years as plumber before taking dads plant business over) and started on just over £5 an hour. Some mates starting as mechanics or other trades were only on £50 to £75 a week. How anyone could expect any effort from them or for them to stick around is beyond me when you can get paid far more stacking shelves in a supermarket. But having said that short term pain long term gain if they'd had a little bigger carrot dangled and stuck in for 4/5 year they could have had a trade and and half decent wage.

 

[Gunners]

It's not just in this industry where young people expect to be on top wages, Unfortunately we have a vast amount of young people that now go on to further education where the go to college and then on to University then they want to take a year out by then most of them are in their mid twenties with huge student loans and they expect to land a fantastic job on fantastic wages but the problem there is most of them don't as they have wasted 5 or six years studying modern history or leisure and Tourism or Art so most of them never get a job linked to what they have studied for, Its down to the government to offer decent incentives to businesses large and small to encourage more people into Engineering, building and Construction if they want this country to thrive they are going to have to get young people doing proper jobs again.

This thread doesn't make for good reading guys, we are all falling into the trap. Let me explain as I see it.

Its not down to the government at all - its down to BUSINESS to ensure they can carry on their respective business in the future. Expecting the government to do it is exactly what has got us into this mess in the first place. Construction does nothing to help itself. Rather than train new employees, it poaches people, pays them more and buries its head in the sand. We should have been where we are today 20 years ago and the Polish coming over to work has only delayed the inevitable. People are retiring faster than new recruits come in - firms don't want to train anybody as its expensive so even those that WANT to work in our industry find it hard to get a foot in the door.

As for youngsters of today all going to uni - that is a government issue, Blair and Brown wanted to allow every kid to go to Uni if they wanted to. The way they made it happen was that Schools are bonus'd on pupils going to college. College's are paid the more students they have - so what do they do? - attract as many students as they can with all kinds of "soft" courses. It doesn't matter what they learn, the college gets paid per student! Same with University. I remember people coming to my school to talk about work experience and we didn't have one person representing an engineering or construction background. I think that says it all really.
Apprenticeships are low paid, however, nobody explains the cost of training someone. At Uni, you pay up front and leave with £20k+ debt. As an Apprentice, you get paid to learn and once qualified, get a pay rise. You learn skills that directly make you worth more to an employer - whats not to like about that?
Meanwhile the construction industry moans it doesn't have enough work force while not bothering to do anything about it. And Brexit is forcing the issue as much of the foreign labour is going back home.

The construction industry is a brilliant game to be involved in - granted its not for everyone - but for those of us who do like it, we get to enjoy seeing a tangible result of our days work at the end of the day. We play with big machines, have a laugh with some of the most diverse workforce in any industry and earn good money doing it. All this just needs showing to a new generation in the right way, because its not a bad industry and those of us on here care enough to discuss it in our spare time. It just needs looking at in a different way.

 

[V8Druid]

Thing is with apprenticeships or similar schemes often businesses get paid for taking school leavers/ trainees on with the idea being they then add a bit on top to make the wages up but then don't. I left school and served my time with local plumbing outfit (10 years as plumber before taking dads plant business over) and started on just over £5 an hour. Some mates starting as mechanics or other trades were only on £50 to £75 a week. How anyone could expect any effort from them or for them to stick around is beyond me when you can get paid far more stacking shelves in a supermarket. But having said that short term pain long term gain if they'd had a little bigger carrot dangled and stuck in for 4/5 year they could have had a trade and and half decent wage.

and that is the bigger carrot .... it worked for decades .... low pay but lots of knowledge, learnt/imparted, towards a qualification, providing a decent wage once qualified .... would you pay some one (f'rinstance) a doctor's wage to mow your lawn ?? ... NO ... so why would you pay a know nothing 16 yr old the same pay as a fully qualified tradesman, to stand, watch and hopefully learn .. if they went to a training school/college/whatever they would have fees to pay for the same knowledge exchange ... FFS they're actually getting a small wage as well .... which does usually quietly increase as they become more capable of contributing to the final product/outcome/job

 

[V8Druid]

This thread doesn't make for good reading guys, we are all falling into the trap. Let me explain as I see it.

Its not down to the government at all - its down to BUSINESS to ensure they can carry on their respective business in the future. Expecting the government to do it is exactly what has got us into this mess in the first place. Construction does nothing to help itself. Rather than train new employees, it poaches people, pays them more and buries its head in the sand. We should have been where we are today 20 years ago and the Polish coming over to work has only delayed the inevitable. People are retiring faster than new recruits come in - firms don't want to train anybody as its expensive so even those that WANT to work in our industry find it hard to get a foot in the door.

As for youngsters of today all going to uni - that is a government issue, Blair and Brown wanted to allow every kid to go to Uni if they wanted to. The way they made it happen was that Schools are bonus'd on pupils going to college. College's are paid the more students they have - so what do they do? - attract as many students as they can with all kinds of "soft" courses. It doesn't matter what they learn, the college gets paid per student! Same with University. I remember people coming to my school to talk about work experience and we didn't have one person representing an engineering or construction background. I think that says it all really.
Apprenticeships are low paid, however, nobody explains the cost of training someone. At Uni, you pay up front and leave with £20k+ debt. As an Apprentice, you get paid to learn and once qualified, get a pay rise. You learn skills that directly make you worth more to an employer - whats not to like about that?
Meanwhile the construction industry moans it doesn't have enough work force while not bothering to do anything about it. And Brexit is forcing the issue as much of the foreign labour is going back home.

The construction industry is a brilliant game to be involved in - granted its not for everyone - but for those of us who do like it, we get to enjoy seeing a tangible result of our days work at the end of the day. We play with big machines, have a laugh with some of the most diverse workforce in any industry and earn good money doing it. All this just needs showing to a new generation in the right way, because its not a bad industry and those of us on here care enough to discuss it in our spare time. It just needs looking at in a different way.

top post Boyo
if biz want future employees they must attract them .. not the gov, as you say ..... get off their arses and do summat about it.

youngsters these days just have no clue about how it all works and has/had done for decades ... they're a generation with their hands constantly out and no interest in achieving much/anything, for them selves ..........
I despair ..... totally .... even more so as I have contributed to the ongoing skills pool many times over, with youngsters, from schools, colleges and some not so young, but were willing to learn .. and proud of every one of 'em that went on to be skilled, knowledgeable people with skills to earn with .. and pass on

 

[GazCro]

and that is the bigger carrot .... it worked for decades .... low pay but lots of knowledge, learnt/imparted, towards a qualification, providing a decent wage once qualified .... would you pay some one (f'rinstance) a doctor's wage to mow your lawn ?? ... NO ... so why would you pay a know nothing 16 yr old the same pay as a fully qualified tradesman, to stand, watch and hopefully learn .. if they went to a training school/college/whatever they would have fees to pay for the same knowledge exchange ... FFS they're actually getting a small wage as well .... which does usually quietly increase as they become more capable of contributing to the final product/outcome/job

QUOTE="V8Druid, post: 27479, member: 80"]
and that is the bigger carrot .... it worked for decades .... low pay but lots of knowledge, learnt/imparted, towards a qualification, providing a decent wage once qualified .... would you pay some one (f'rinstance) a doctor's wage to mow your lawn ?? ... NO ... so why would you pay a know nothing 16 yr old the same pay as a fully qualified tradesman, to stand, watch and hopefully learn .. if they went to a training school/college/whatever they would have fees to pay for the same knowledge exchange ... FFS they're actually getting a small wage as well .... which does usually quietly increase as they become more capable of contributing to the final product/outcome/job
[/QUOTE]
But youth of today aren't interested in learning they just wanna turn up do the bare minimum get paid go home. Very few want to actually get good at the job and have any pride in what they're doing. It's something that's going wrong at an early age in the education system that's got a lot to do with it. All schools seem geared round getting everyone to uni and achieving exam pass rate targets but not everyone is gifted academically. There's nothing in place to learn anyone any practical skills and that would be the head start needed for businesses to be able to give them a start

 

[pettsy]

hy would you pay a know nothing 16 yr old the same pay as a fully qualified tradesman, to stand, watch and hopefully learn .. if they went to a training school/college/whatever they would have fees to pay for the same knowledge exchange ... FFS they're actually getting a small wage as well .... which does usually quietly increase as they become more capable of contributing to the final product/outcome/job

15ish years ago I got my chance as an apprentice, and now 6 years into being self employed I’d love to give someone else a start and pass on what I’ve learnt. The trouble is, from sole trader to employee suddenly there’s so many extra costs above pay - insurance/ pensions/tax/holiday pay/training etc etc. I just can’t see how it would work for me financially never mind finding someone willing/capable of doing a hands on job!

 

[V8Druid]

But youth of today aren't interested in learning they just wanna turn up do the bare minimum get paid go home. Very few want to actually get good at the job and have any pride in what they're doing. It's something that's going wrong at an early age in the education system that's got a lot to do with it. All schools seem geared round getting everyone to uni and achieving exam pass rate targets but not everyone is gifted academically. There's nothing in place to learn anyone any practical skills and that would be the head start needed for businesses to be able to give them a start

nail .. head .. SMACK
I spent 3 years of my life in '76 to 79 training as a 'constructional design' teacher ... I was lucky that when I was in school it still had well equipped workshops and teachers who could use them ...... and impart skills. Plus i also had a head start as my old man loved to potter about making things, to subsidize his, what was then, not great salary, as a police officer. I learnt to weld when I was five and spent my childhood and youth also pottering making things too.
I worked for a year before going to teacher training college, as it was then, fabricating at a small eng. firm and putting money away for the next three years.
I've said before somewhere ... 80% of the other students on my course year had sweet FA experience of a workshop and were mature students, re-training to supposedly teach a subject they knew **** all about.
we had some lovely workshops and the projects we were set as 'course work were pathetic .. there were four of us out of a 20 strong year group, who could actually use the facilities knowledgeably --- well to be frank -- could actually just use them .. the rest relied on us for know how .. the lecturers were frankly bloody useless idiots who'd been pushed through the education system - out of the way and placed virtually no emphasis on practical skills ...'cos they had none themselves

we ... 'the four' usually had our terms' course work done in a week or so and spent the rest of the time helping the rest of the group ... not a great situation .. but it did give us a head start in 'educating' ........... but that was/is/will forever be the issue ..... there was virtually no one capable of passing skills on as they didn't have them to pass on ... and we're now all retired

I got asked by the old head of dept. at my old school to work there when I finished ... stuck it for a year .. the lovely workshops - wood, metal, motor vehicle and the drawing office, had been torn apart in the four years since I'd left there and the 'subject's' emphasis had been shifted, by the education authorities, by syllabus change, away from practical skills to a more design based curriculum, without those dangerous nasty hand / machine tools, that'd become an insurance liability nightmare, to paper, card, straws and scissors ........ and that's where the rot set in

I had spent three years arguing with the lecturers in college, that you can't begin to design well without a minimum of basic knowledge of materials, their ability to perform and of course HTF to use them, together with the necessary skills to manipulate them ....... I was not popular with the lecturers, but not one person on the course disagreed with me ... privately out of ear shot. Had they stood up more, their course would have been a lot more fruitful

and now there's no one left to teach those basic skills and no equipment with which to do so ..... engineering in this country is f***ed .. ditto wood working skills, tech. drawing skills, motor engineering skills, etc., etc..
anyone wanting to learn any of these has to wait until they've left school and try to find a course somewhere in further ed. to learn them .... but they're in the minority ..... most do not want to learn how to get their hands dirty

as said I totally despair

 

[JD450A]

I disagree with some of the above posted, agree with some and am dissimilar with other bits. My sister is in her last year of school and thanks to the constant drive for academia, her marks will be decided mostly by a single set of tests..... GCSE's (or whatever bollocks they are now called) do ultimately decide the choices you get next. She's a clever lass but theirs no f****ng way you will ever get her to do brilliantly on a spot test based on learned knowledge.

Now unfortunately a couple years after I left school the option to leave at 16 and find your own way vanished so there are 3 options, College, Sixth Form or a Apprenticeship.

She has a place at college (doing a worthless qualification IMHO but it's what she wishes to do and education is free until age 18) BUT the GCSE's required may be beyond it. There aren't really any other courses that float her boat.... she would like to be a paramedic which whilst her grades won't be good enough she Could make a fantastic Amblebus Driver (She's driven 3.5t vans since age 13 quite well) BUT that's not a option till she is 18+.

Sixth form is the route pushed by schools for all students.... obviously this route is a non option as it's as academia focused as GCSE's.

Before we get onto option 3, we need to talk about the fact that she's been working since age 14, has a job she could walk into full time as soon as she leaves.....which without a doubt would be the best choice for her, the wage is decent enough and it would allow her to get money and paperwork in order and a C1 license to drive a amblebus if she wished.... BUT thanks to our helpful government that's not a option.

That leaves option 3, a Apprenticeships - now we need my view on Apprenticeships....
Having seen the outcomes on sites, done one myself and knowing the reality's, apprentices are used 90% of the time in construction as underpaid cheap labour and dogsbody's.... In fact I'd say the only industry's which respect and teach Apprentices are Catering, Engineering(Mechanical and Electrical) and Mechanics (although IMHO that comes under engineering). On site they are used as cheap labour to fetch carry and clean.... I don't care what anyone's f****ng opinion is, a Lad is not learning sweeping unit 1 whilst his mentor is bricklaying on plot 3! I see it all the time, same with groundwork's, carpentry and plastering!.... just cheap labour!

Apprenticeships are great on paper.... the reality is the qualifications are rarely brilliant, most are insignificant with the exception of a few engineering/mechanics qual's. Anything under a NVQ 3 is a waste of time and allows you to do absolutely f**k all in the way of further education if you wished!
(I have a NVQ 2 and would love to of done a Engineering course at University, I looked heavily into it after I had been with Tim Rayner.... you would think a few decent GCSE's Including Physics and Chemistry as separate subjects and a decent background in quarrying would gain you a chance of doing a mining engineering degree but no, I need to go back and do A levels to even qualify for a shout)

So back to the Third option.... She does a Apprenticeship, Now she could potentially do it where she is now, but she doesn't fancy catering. Plus It could potentially be a pay cut. There are options to do it at a Stables or Kennels BUT I Know full well for both of those the apprentice is a very cheap dogsbody.... fetch, clean, carry and care... for £3.90/hr.

Currently the best option in my head is to sod her off to college for a 12 month plant course, then take her on as a apprentice myself for £3.90/hr.... Works out at around £150 a week and I'm pretty sure if the insurance was helpful I could stick her in a transit tipper and make the Wage selling delivered aggregate! BUT she has a job already that works for her! So why the f**k can she not just go and do it full time!

Education is rotten from the core.... and self serving in order to make the maximum amount of money... HOWEVER!

The construction industry most notably the plant industry is now reaping the effects of 20 years of proud agency dependence!.... the old boys are now retiring and the young lads are either s**t or want nothing to do with agency's.... The Best part is for the past 5 years GPS and Gimmicks have been seen as the solution to Up productivity and safety when all you have is s**t labour... but finally the reality is falling..... f**k em, f**k em all

 

[Jimoz]

Depressing thread but true...
Love it when the dossers on the dole earn 350 In sick or jsa so won't do a job for 400 a week because effectively they're only getting 50 quid for a whole week. Crazy eh.
Education is knackered. Colleges paid on results. Multiple lads passed on my course who had no chippying skills as were on a production line at jeldwen.
I tried to take a lad on in the summer. Got one candidate with s**t attitude.
A lot of the apprenticeships around are a piss take for cheap labour like howdens offering warehouse apprentice so they can pay less. Having said that I never minded sweeping up or mashing the tea during my time was a right of passage. Always got told time for leaning time for cleaning.

 

[JD450A]

Worth a Part two...

I have a brother... he is signed off with "depression".... he also is Transgender, he thinks he gets his accommodation paid for and is on £50 a week or so allowance. IMHO he's about as sick as me, but the school system has utterly failed him,convincing my parents that he was Academic and leading to him going to university only to crash and burn out of it after a term when he couldn't keep up.

He's a utterly useless workshy bastard. I have no issue with him not knowing his sexuality etc, whilst I don't agree with that whole vain of conversation I do believe it shouldn't matter if your contributing to society... The workshy bastard part is my issue, whilst he'd never hack a manual trade he would be more than capable of a job in Tescos.... but that would mean fitting in.

We have become too accepting of those who don't conform.... All this be who you are crap has a limit. the LGBT movement have a lot to answer for on this... nae bother with any of em but we've now reached the stage that someone could honestly justify that they aren't a human they are infact a unicorn and someone would no doubt stick there head above the parapet and claim it's there Right to be a unicorn!

I have had a plan for a long time.... Post 16 give 4 Options - Further Education (Academic) For the few with true promise, Apprenticeship, the Working world, or Full time national service either in the MOD, Police, Fire, Ambulance, Coastguard/RNLI, Nursing or Council until the age of 20 or employment arises..... Plenty of options and training in fields truly useful to society. Trouble is it requires common sense!

I also think more Grants should be available... but for small sums with minimum buy in's but treated as a repayable loan (Regardless of bankrupcy) if the initial goal is'nt reached and continued for 2 years or more.... £8000 would buy someone a Van and some tools to start out and is less than the year's cost of them being on the Dole....

 

[Smiffy]

I think that a) we need to make trades a positive thing instead of a dumping ground for those who cant do anything else which therefore leads to snobbery and people looking down upon working men
And b) set people to proper work at 16 so they realize how much better being in a trade is
I used to work in farming but got offered a job for a plant hire firm
Alot of the blokes complain about wages and think there working so hard for bugger all
When I feel the complete opposite I think the wages are good and it's pretty easy to be honest
Some of the blokes have a problem with me they think I get paid a lot more as I bought a house in my mid twenties they can't understand that we earn the same I just have a greater respect for the money therefore don't spend it so freely
I also constantly ask for more training responsibility and opportunities which don't currently earn me anymore but I know will lead to better things
Whereas I've seen blokes threaten to quit if they get sent on a training course for something new or different

The whole mentality of this country is upside down

 

[Left hooker]

Thing is with apprenticeships or similar schemes often businesses get paid for taking school leavers/ trainees on with the idea being they then add a bit on top to make the wages up but then don't. I left school and served my time with local plumbing outfit (10 years as plumber before taking dads plant business over) and started on just over £5 an hour. Some mates starting as mechanics or other trades were only on £50 to £75 a week. How anyone could expect any effort from them or for them to stick around is beyond me when you can get paid far more stacking shelves in a supermarket. But having said that short term pain long term gain if they'd had a little bigger carrot dangled and stuck in for 4/5 year they could have had a trade and and half decent wage.

That's how I started out was interested in cars at the time managed to get an apprenticeship worked at a dealership for 5 years before joining family firm
Think we are now lucky down here in Cornwall things have changed since I was at school we had all the workshop/machining gear but was never allowed to use it
the new replacement school has fully kitted out machine shops I saw on an open day for our eldest who's going this September think reason why is a big farm machinery manufacturer down here sponsors and helps with extra curricular activities so school is pushing engineering which is good to see
And also at collage level we have duchy college who do agg engineering and plant operating training courses as well as motor vehicle courses from Cornwall collage
The big ground work firms down here like champion and m.j.l have taken on youngsters from the plant collage to find more ops that have been trained the right way to look after machines to help fill shortages in staff

 

[DaveDCB]

I did some work with a local farmer.. told him my rates, which were very reasonable at the time, his response was(whilst still accepting my rate) we have self employed farm labourers on £10/hr we will just use them! Just such a backwards way of thinking, having a tractor scraper driver do groundwork’s?!?!

 

[Jimbo69]

Not all youngsters are workshy. I took on a young lad at the start of the year, 18 years old and keen as mustard. Can’t stand still for 5 minutes, constantly looking for something to do. He’s asked me if I would give him an apprenticeship in groundwork’s so I’ve been looking into that.

I’ve also got a 15 year old who comes twice a week for work experience, he hasn’t done well at school academically and this is where the education system is failing, there’s far too much emphasis on academic achievement and physical jobs like ours are looked down on. His practical skills are great, he’s keen to learn how to do things. He asked for a go at laying slabs the other week and made a right job of it. I don’t know what he’s going to do when he leaves school though, most apprenticeships round here go to family friends who mostly aren’t interested in doing them.

 

[doobin]

I had a 16 year old lad work for me for a year a couple of years back- great lad, and would have kept him only he split up with his girlfriend and she was the only thing keeping him down here. DIfficult family background but a great kid.

We looked through the various guidance, and it became apparent that it's the local authorities who shoulder most of the responsibility for ensuring education is continued. They are overstretched as it is, and if they dont' know, they won't come looking. There didn't seem to be any penalties attached either, it was more a case of the young person and their parents wouldn't be able to access any benefits if the young person wasn't in some form of education.

So I'd say to Rory's sister just to keep working if she's happy in the job. As for his brother- unrepeatable. All these leftwing ***** who enable this sort of crap need a f****ng good kicking- they'll be the first to start conforming the other way come the revoloution. Spineless bastards the lot of them.

 

[V8Druid]

I had a 16 year old lad work for me for a year a couple of years back- great lad, and would have kept him only he split up with his girlfriend and she was the only thing keeping him down here. DIfficult family background but a great kid.

We looked through the various guidance, and it became apparent that it's the local authorities who shoulder most of the responsibility for ensuring education is continued. They are overstretched as it is, and if they dont' know, they won't come looking. There didn't seem to be any penalties attached either, it was more a case of the young person and their parents wouldn't be able to access any benefits if the young person wasn't in some form of education.

So I'd say to Rory's sister just to keep working if she's happy in the job. As for his brother- unrepeatable. All these leftwing ***** who enable this sort of crap need a f****ng good kicking- they'll be the first to start conforming the other way come the revoloution. Spineless bastards the lot of them.

I used to get the odd 'work experience' kid from school or local college ... some of whom were great .. some were complete tossers, with no interest.
Took on several of the kids when they finished school and turned them into some great skilled workers.

Funnily enough, just been chatting to one on FB ... came to me at 16 with no self confidence and a horrendous stammer ..... became one of my best fabricators and a very good friend... told me last year he'd just gained an honours degree in engineering of some description always keeps in touch