Commercial pickups

[S B Rural Contracting]

Who here has bought a pickup since the new HMRC rules about whether a pickup is classified as a car or a van?

My understanding is that since April 25 any extended and double cab pickups bought (new or second hand) are classed as a car instead of a commercial vehicle. To get around this manufacturers are now selling extended/double cabs with the rear seats removed, a bulkhead and storage installed in their place. These are considered by hmrc to be primarily for transporting goods instead if people and are therefore treated as commercial vehicles.

I drive a defender 90 td5 daily, its rammed with tools and tows fully loaded trailers frequently. Its short wheelbase is great for turning around on my tight yard and for the awkward farmyards etc over here in west Wales. The downsides is that it's noisy, takes forever to warm up, lets water in but somehow not back out, and there's not that much space to store tools in the back. I've been considering sacrificing manouvrability for more comfort and the combined benefit of indoor and outdoor storage space you get from a pickup.

Has anyone bought a second hand pickup and removed the rear seats to classify it as a commercial? How did the process go?

Thanks

 

[Lancs Lad]

Who here has bought a pickup since the new HMRC rules about whether a pickup is classified as a car or a van?

My understanding is that since April 25 any extended and double cab pickups bought (new or second hand) are classed as a car instead of a commercial vehicle. To get around this manufacturers are now selling extended/double cabs with the rear seats removed, a bulkhead and storage installed in their place. These are considered by hmrc to be primarily for transporting goods instead if people and are therefore treated as commercial vehicles.

I drive a defender 90 td5 daily, its rammed with tools and tows fully loaded trailers frequently. Its short wheelbase is great for turning around on my tight yard and for the awkward farmyards etc over here in west Wales. The downsides is that it's noisy, takes forever to warm up, lets water in but somehow not back out, and there's not that much space to store tools in the back. I've been considering sacrificing manouvrability for more comfort and the combined benefit of indoor and outdoor storage space you get from a pickup.

Has anyone bought a second hand pickup and removed the rear seats to classify it as a commercial? How did the process go?

Thanks

What are you trying to achieve?
It's only for BIK and capital allowance it's changed.
Still commercial for vat if you can prove it's for work and over a tonne payload.

 

[Brendan]

Think it would only apply to new vehicles with a bulkhead and no rear seats fitted from factory.
The "commercial" version is the same cost as having the rear seats, windows etc except you can now claim aia on the pickup

 

[S B Rural Contracting]

What are you trying to achieve?
It's only for BIK and capital allowance it's changed.
Still commercial for vat if you can prove it's for work and over a tonne payload.

Should have said I'm a sole trader using cash basis accounting. So if I buy a commercial vehicle I claim the full value as an expense in the first year. If I buy a car I have to treat it as a capital investment and therefore I can claim a percentage of the purchase price against profits each year. I understand the percentage is based on the co2 emissions of the vehicle, and with a pickup I'd be able to claim a few percent each year.

Ultimately as far as I understand it the difference for me is that a commercial vehicle is tax deductible and a car isn't.

 

[S B Rural Contracting]

Think it would only apply to new vehicles with a bulkhead and no rear seats fitted from factory.
The "commercial" version is the same cost as having the rear seats, windows etc except you can now claim aia on the pickup

Thanks, I thought that might well be the case. I've spoken to a few local dealers and the Toyota dealer actually wants to charge about £1k to remove the rear seats and install a bulkhead. Most of the pickups cost about twice what I had wanted to spend, hence wondering if anyone had had any joy converting a second hand pickup.

 

[Smiffy]

If you have never had rear seats why not look at a single cab. Isuzu have done them as autos for a few years if you want to be really plush. And look at custom rear bodies from n and j or brown dog metal work to give you the inside/outside storage.

 

[6feetdown]

If you have never had rear seats why not look at a single cab. Isuzu have done them as autos for a few years if you want to be really plush. And look at custom rear bodies from n and j or brown dog metal work to give you the inside/outside storage.

The leisure drawer package looks reasonable price compared to some. Wonder what weight they would hold

 

[doobin]

If you have never had rear seats why not look at a single cab. Isuzu have done them as autos for a few years if you want to be really plush. And look at custom rear bodies from n and j or brown dog metal work to give you the inside/outside storage.

Can’t put your seat back for lunch.

 

[Brendan]

Should have said I'm a sole trader using cash basis accounting. So if I buy a commercial vehicle I claim the full value as an expense in the first year. If I buy a car I have to treat it as a capital investment and therefore I can claim a percentage of the purchase price against profits each year. I understand the percentage is based on the co2 emissions of the vehicle, and with a pickup I'd be able to claim a few percent each year.

Ultimately as far as I understand it the difference for me is that a commercial vehicle is tax deductible and a car isn't.

You can't claim aia on the full cost on any standard double cabs whether used or new, if your vat registered you can claim the vat back and it doesn't need to be on a new vehicle just bought from someone/where with vat invoice. Not 100% on the amount but would imagine it's something like only 6% write down allowance on the cost of the vehicle due to high emissions, so there is a small amount to offset against profits but would take years to clear the difference.

I believe double cab vans are the same but a double cab tipper would be still treated as a commercial for aia, so you could offset the whole cost against profits whether it's 100% the first year or what ever amount needed to get you to £12,570 and then the rest goes in a "pot" to be written down at 18% a year till exhausted

Commercial defender, discovery, landcruiser, shogun etc would all be classed as vans........ unless someone has put seats in the back but that's a can of worms and at your own risk

As normal check with an accountant or hm r c for actual confirmation as any information used, is at your own risk.... Etc etc etc

 

[Monkeybusiness]

This thread needs Fred’s accountant’s input….

 

[Brendan]

This thread needs Fred’s accountant’s input….

Funnily enough was speaking to a guy the other week who changed from a diesel wildtrak to the the new phev,.was called up from dealer and offered a deal paying slightly less than he currently was, I asked him what he was doing about the aia and he said his accountant put through the whole amount, I asked how but he couldn't answer

 

[Smiffy]

Can’t put your seat back for lunch.

Coming from a defender, eating lunch in a single cab pickup will be like having the whole school cafeteria to yourself

 

[Lancs Lad]

You can't claim aia on the full cost on any standard double cabs whether used or new, if your vat registered you can claim the vat back and it doesn't need to be on a new vehicle just bought from someone/where with vat invoice. Not 100% on the amount but would imagine it's something like only 6% write down allowance on the cost of the vehicle due to high emissions, so there is a small amount to offset against profits but would take years to clear the difference.

I believe double cab vans are the same but a double cab tipper would be still treated as a commercial for aia, so you could offset the whole cost against profits whether it's 100% the first year or what ever amount needed to get you to £12,570 and then the rest goes in a "pot" to be written down at 18% a year till exhausted

Commercial defender, discovery, landcruiser, shogun etc would all be classed as vans........ unless someone has put seats in the back but that's a can of worms and at your own risk

As normal check with an accountant or hm r c for actual confirmation as any information used, is at your own risk.... Etc etc etc

As predicted Absolutely shed loads of new Defender commercials everywhere now! Absolute joke! How is that any different to a pickup and less commercial imo.

 

[S B Rural Contracting]

If you have never had rear seats why not look at a single cab. Isuzu have done them as autos for a few years if you want to be really plush. And look at custom rear bodies from n and j or brown dog metal work to give you the inside/outside storage.

I have thought about it but what do you do with spare jackets and waterproofs etc? Would they stay dry in a rear box? Also power tools etc etc. I also get the feeling accessing stuff would be more awkward than the back of the 90. Definitely open to a single cab.

 

[S B Rural Contracting]

You can't claim aia on the full cost on any standard double cabs whether used or new, if your vat registered you can claim the vat back and it doesn't need to be on a new vehicle just bought from someone/where with vat invoice. Not 100% on the amount but would imagine it's something like only 6% write down allowance on the cost of the vehicle due to high emissions, so there is a small amount to offset against profits but would take years to clear the difference.

I believe double cab vans are the same but a double cab tipper would be still treated as a commercial for aia, so you could offset the whole cost against profits whether it's 100% the first year or what ever amount needed to get you to £12,570 and then the rest goes in a "pot" to be written down at 18% a year till exhausted

Commercial defender, discovery, landcruiser, shogun etc would all be classed as vans........ unless someone has put seats in the back but that's a can of worms and at your own risk

As normal check with an accountant or hm r c for actual confirmation as any information used, is at your own risk.... Etc etc etc

It's a bit different because it's cash basis accounting and I'm a sole trader not a ltd. So the only thing that is eligible for AIA is a business car, everything else including vans is classed as a business expense, hence 100% deductible in the first year. I was thinking about calling HMRC for clarification on modifying second hand pickups but I'm not sure I'll get a clear answer and either way it will be 45 mins on hold.

 

[S B Rural Contracting]

As predicted Absolutely shed loads of new Defender commercials everywhere now! Absolute joke! How is that any different to a pickup and less commercial imo.

Yeah and they're pretty nice to be in. Basic model starts at about £50k + vat so not cheap but probably comparable to the more expensive spec pickups.

 

[Brendan]

It's a bit different because it's cash basis accounting and I'm a sole trader not a ltd. So the only thing that is eligible for AIA is a business car, everything else including vans is classed as a business expense, hence 100% deductible in the first year. I was thinking about calling HMRC for clarification on modifying second hand pickups but I'm not sure I'll get a clear answer and either way it will be 45 mins on hold.

Might want to brush up on what you can and can't claim for.
Doesn't make a difference if sole trader or ltd, double cab pickups are treated as cars for aia and can only be written down at 6% a year.
Vans (no double cab pickups or crew cab vans) are treated as plant so claimable under aia.
Cars are not claimable under aia

 

[William127]

I have thought about it but what do you do with spare jackets and waterproofs etc? Would they stay dry in a rear box? Also power tools etc etc. I also get the feeling accessing stuff would be more awkward than the back of the 90. Definitely open to a single cab.

As you're already a Defender sufferer I'd say forget the pick ups and get yourself an ex utility 110.
I'm on my second, this ones a 2.2, previous was a tuned 2.4, best tow vehicle's I've had.
Heavy duty chassis, front and rear anti roll bars, rear helper springs, diesel heater (turns it into an oven ), roller shutters for easy access etc. Bulkhead removal bar and extended seat runners (from factory on mine!) so plenty of leg room- no real improvement in elbow room though About £10-14k

Or a Disco 3/4- half the cost of the defender, twice the power, possibly twice the bills though

 

[V8Druid]

It's a bit different because it's cash basis accounting and I'm a sole trader not a ltd. So the only thing that is eligible for AIA is a business car, everything else including vans is classed as a business expense, hence 100% deductible in the first year. I was thinking about calling HMRC for clarification on modifying second hand pickups but I'm not sure I'll get a clear answer and either way it will be 45 mins on hold.

and the rest

 

[Smiffy]

I have thought about it but what do you do with spare jackets and waterproofs etc? Would they stay dry in a rear box? Also power tools etc etc. I also get the feeling accessing stuff would be more awkward than the back of the 90. Definitely open to a single cab.

The backs can be waterproof depending on the spec, can even get a diesel heater in them to dry kit properly.
Power tools are best not left anywhere. All the trucks are pretty easy to get into and nick, especially the Toyota's unfortunately.
Access into the back of double cabs is rubbish. They are designed for people to get in so the rear doors don't open wide enough to easily get toolboxes in and out, or to fit draw type toolboxes to. I don't know if they have extended the check straps on the new 2 seat twin cabs to make access better, but i worked out a double cab for years with loads of different set ups from rear seats removed to loads of different canopies. They are all a compromise. I have said it on here many times but I think the best option is an Aussie style canopy but they are expensive.
Also remember that these trucks don't have a 7t train weight. So if towing 3.5t are can't legally even have a big breakfast before towing let alone take a toolbox with you.