Vinpetrol
Well-known member
Yes . Then you can have more weight at business end without the engcon
Vinpetrol
Well-known member
It is . It’s 200mm shorter . You get the additional reach back when the engcon is on it anyway and the machine handles it all nicely. Especially now I have the steelwrist 800 bucket on it (good recommendation doobin) . It’s all really well balanced .
doobin
Well-known member
Yup, I’ve always said it. You can have the headstock at an angle that way too.
Dedicated forestry rotator is the way forward. Won’t bend the dipper like that either @Monkeybusiness
It also opens and closes a lot faster as the through ports on a rotator are much larger than on the engcon.
G
gefoster
New member
Interesting!! I wasn't aware of the basic tilt rotators...we recently got a wacker et90 and have been looking at fitting it out with a grapple saw, one like the interlam/intermercato that will also be handy for loading timber. I'd like the grab to rotate so it got me wondering if a secondhand tilt rotator might make more sense than a dedicated rotator that can only be used with the grab. It sounds like a basic model wouldn't be up to the task though.
doobin
Well-known member
With a grapple saw you will want a massive angle on the hitch in order to be able to hold it out vertically in front of you.
Putting this angled headstock under a tiltrotator will cause you to have to correct for this angle when you rotate. A decent rotator with a through port for the saw is still less than the control system for the engcon. Also, flow rates through an Engcon tend to be less as they try to squeeze it all in. So a dedicated rotator is better all round in my opinion. I like a rotator like this as they are so much faster to rotate than an engcon worm drive and have a bit of give in them to relieve stresses, but you can also get worm drive ones.
Personally i prefer a dedicated forestry rotator and grab and a seperate tilty. Run them both under a top hitch.
Not the best photo but zoom in and you can see the angle I mean on the hitch.
APhillips
Well-known member
Right, first off, apologies for a potentially big reply, I forgot about this thread for a few days!
I am always a little conscious about giving out pricing online like this as I can never predict how different dealers might price a system (Steelwrist UK don't sell direct), if you considered List Prices, the difference between 4 pipe and control system on a standard S45/S45 X12 (9t machine) is around £5k
Forestry rotators don't have any significant level of hold and if you are looking to de-limb trees this could add a level of risk into the work that a worm drive removes. Angled head bracket is a must, consider taking a tree off at ground level, it just isn't possible without an angle on the bracket.
For an ET90 you would be adding around 320kg for a bare tiltrotator which is going to seriously detract from the capability of the saw or just simply make the machine less stable. Flow rate is also a consideration, you will likely get higher flow rates through the swivel of a dedicated rotator than a tilty, there is simply more space to fit everything in. And then packaging of a dedicated rotator based saw is a lot more compact.
Personally I always like to give people the option of 4 pipe and control system, but this does depend on what people are wanting to do and how future proof they want to be, 4 pipe system is much more difficult to integrate into Machine Control Systems for example.
I am always a little conscious about giving out pricing online like this as I can never predict how different dealers might price a system (Steelwrist UK don't sell direct), if you considered List Prices, the difference between 4 pipe and control system on a standard S45/S45 X12 (9t machine) is around £5k
Please send me a PM with the sizes you are looking for and I can give you an indication on price, we don't sell direct so final pricing would need to be from a dealer.
I would agree with Doobin on this one, as much as a tiltrotator can be a good base for a Grapple saw, I think a dedicated rotator will be a better solution however I would still be looking at a worm drive rotator vs the forestry type he has suggested.
Forestry rotators don't have any significant level of hold and if you are looking to de-limb trees this could add a level of risk into the work that a worm drive removes. Angled head bracket is a must, consider taking a tree off at ground level, it just isn't possible without an angle on the bracket.
For an ET90 you would be adding around 320kg for a bare tiltrotator which is going to seriously detract from the capability of the saw or just simply make the machine less stable. Flow rate is also a consideration, you will likely get higher flow rates through the swivel of a dedicated rotator than a tilty, there is simply more space to fit everything in. And then packaging of a dedicated rotator based saw is a lot more compact.
doobin
Well-known member
When I purchased mine I reasoned that a 9 tonner isn't the sort of carrier that will be used for roadside tree works. Even with the TAB boom you're out of reach very quickly. In a clearance situation I figured I'd be happy with the 'harvester' approach- just control it as it comes down. I've not actually set up a grapple saw on it yet, but it's a rotator type that has a built in slew brake. I've only had it slip a couple of times, and you certainly hear it when it gives. I reckon it would be a good halfway house on a grapple saw on a 9 tonner.
B
Brendan
Well-known member
Prices for tiltys on small machines is mental, I had prices recently and just can't justify it.
Engcon not really doing anything groundbreaking just rebadging the old model numbers, for the smallest tilty it will stop at 202 as don't think you can have ec oil.
The new basic engcon ec02b basic is probably the 102, 4 pipe system with manual hitch and that's something like 5k.
If you want hydraulic hitch it goes to ss9 so 4 pipes with switchable aux to run a grab and the price literally doubles to 10k
Full fat DC2 adds another 4k, goes to 2 pipe system but on the smallest version there's no gripper option and no ec oil so half the features of the system not relevant, ok it might perform marginally better Vs machines own hi and low flow auxs but it's still a lot of money, but having to add a second aux to my 8026 is something like 2k in parts
Rototilt marginally cheaper for the full fat system no idea of they do a 4 pipe system
Steel wrist will not supply a S30 180 tilty for a 3t so wouldn't give me a price
Chinesium version, 2 pipe with their own levers and control system something like 5k landed apparently although no idea on any import taxes
Engcon not really doing anything groundbreaking just rebadging the old model numbers, for the smallest tilty it will stop at 202 as don't think you can have ec oil.
The new basic engcon ec02b basic is probably the 102, 4 pipe system with manual hitch and that's something like 5k.
If you want hydraulic hitch it goes to ss9 so 4 pipes with switchable aux to run a grab and the price literally doubles to 10k
Full fat DC2 adds another 4k, goes to 2 pipe system but on the smallest version there's no gripper option and no ec oil so half the features of the system not relevant, ok it might perform marginally better Vs machines own hi and low flow auxs but it's still a lot of money, but having to add a second aux to my 8026 is something like 2k in parts
Rototilt marginally cheaper for the full fat system no idea of they do a 4 pipe system
Steel wrist will not supply a S30 180 tilty for a 3t so wouldn't give me a price
Chinesium version, 2 pipe with their own levers and control system something like 5k landed apparently although no idea on any import taxes
doobin
Well-known member
As much as I hate to say it and may be crucified for doing so.... £5k is a bargain for what you can achieve with it. So start with one of them, have @CPS make you an S30 top hitch, and either splash out on upgrading your control system or fit a diverter to the offset and just suffer with a pedal for the tilt until you realise that you love it so much you will just buy either the proper second aux for your machine or trade it in for a new one with twin aux. You don't have to buy everything at once.
You should ask Engcon how much a six pipe basic model with hydraulic hitch is. No control system. Just run a diverter tap from your main hitch piping like I do. If that's around 7k then I think that would be all you need going forward. You can share it between 2.7t and 1.9t, and it'll last multiple machines- spread the cost out like that and it's peanuts.
S30 is the correct size for a basic tilty under a 2.7t as far as I'm concerned, but if you want to run it then you will need to put your big boy pants on, assume any risk and source your own top hitch. I've had zero issues with my secondhand model and have probably added at least 1000 hours to the 3000 hours it already had on it. I need to fit an expander pin to take up some slop in the ram clevis at some point but it's perfectly usable as is.
D
DaveDCB
Well-known member
FYI it’s £3985 for dc2 control system and mig2 levers…. Based on a EC209. Don’t ask me how I know 🫣
Furniss
Well-known member
hope you got a gripper this time, im without mine while i wait on 15day lead time for a tiny pipe, the time the gripper saves me and how easy it makes life is incredible..
D
DaveDCB
Well-known member
No but it’s on the quick release on a ec209 so I can just hook one up anytime and away it goes. I still feel for me it’s going to get in the way more than I’d be happy with.
Storrsy
Well-known member
Id have one for the Wacker at £5k. £7.5k probably not which is what I thought they were now. Is it fair to say though that as most of the time it's going to have a grader on is there much point having a hyd hitch circuit for the tilty? Depends on cost i suppose.
Storrsy
Well-known member
Where is best to buy an engcon from- straight from engcon or is there a dealer network?
B
Brendan
Well-known member
I think ss9 is the next one up and it's literally double the basic and that's nearly 10k with no buckets or top hitch just plain S30 180 top and bottom
B
Brendan
Well-known member
Generally cheaper direct, I've got a number for the area rep I was speaking to if you want it
Furniss
Well-known member
yep mines quick release - so yours is gripper ready but you havent ordered one ? never take mine off tbh and never in way either.
Furniss
Well-known member
no hyd hitch is a step back too far imho - you change attachments quite a bit - getting out every time would deff spoil the flow
just ask 
D
DaveDCB
Well-known member
Yeah i believe so, i can also add on the rotating brush or whatever else they offer for it now.
when I had the ec206 it was a factory order - either order with or without.
When I’ve recovered from this lot I might add one
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