Poorly Wacker plate

[Stroppymonkey]

Have talked about this before but can’t find the thread. My version of boiler problems today. Can anyone point me towards a schematic that shows how the fuel system works on this.
Big Wacker suddenly lost most of its power and started smoking bad. Starts perfectly every time. Just been back and put clean filters into and out of the lift pump. Problem the same . Filters are not clearing air. I was expecting it to pump it back up to tank so surprised by the air staying in filter. Gave up as poxy weather turned to shite here. Might drag it back to HQ for a dry workshop at some point.

 

[V8Druid]

Have talked about this before but can’t find the thread. My version of boiler problems today. Can anyone point me towards a schematic that shows how the fuel system works on this.
Big Wacker suddenly lost most of its power and started smoking bad. Starts perfectly every time. Just been back and put clean filters into and out of the lift pump. Problem the same . Filters are not clearing air. I was expecting it to pump it back up to tank so surprised by the air staying in filter. Gave up as poxy weather turned to shite here. Might drag it back to HQ for a dry workshop at some point.

don't seem to be able to ever get those things chock full and always have air in them -- banjo bolts with the possible pissy little gauze filter would be my next port of call ? and maybe a mesh screen in the pump bowl too

 

[Stroppymonkey]

don't seem to be able to ever get those things chock full and always have air in them -- banjo bolts with the possible pissy little gauze filter would be my next port of call ? and maybe a mesh screen in the pump bowl too

Will see if I can find PDF and see if other instructions. Feels like fuel starving

 

[pettsy]

I know it’s slightly different but I think on carb fed cars that have that style of filter they’re never full.

 

[V8Druid]

Will see if I can find PDF and see if other instructions. Feels like fuel starving

well I can see two banjos and a pump bowl likely to have filters in them .... nothing ventured ... rip 'em off and see if they're blocked

 

[DaveDCB]

well I can see two banjos and a pump bowl likely to have filters in them .... nothing ventured ... rip 'em off and see if they're blocked

As in the lift pump?
I’ve had plenty of the fill with crud in the past.. deffo worth a check.. basically anything with fuel in it take it off and clean out

 

[diggerjones]

Don't think you have mentioned stripping the lift pump. There will be a gauze in there

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

By all the smoke it is getting some fuel

 

[Stroppymonkey]

By all the smoke it is getting some fuel

Starts perfectly with no excess cranking. Will strip down when I am over the farm next.

 

[Gunners]

Sorry to jump on your thread Stroppymonkey, but my wacker plate might just be more poorly than yours is!
I made the easy mistake of loaning it to someone who's taken several months to get it back to me - and now it wont start. I initially thought bad fuel, but it then stopped turning over all together!
Subsequent dismantling has revealed several issues and more questions than answers. Its a Hatz 1B20 Diesel.
So for those more in the know with these things than I am, when I was trying to find TDC, the push rods seemed to be all over the place - like the timing was out. They did what they should do and in the right order but not with what I would expect in relation to the piston position...
Upon pulling the timing cover off the engine I discover the only obvious timing mark I could find was 180deg plus 3 teeth out of position from where I would imagine it would sit in between the two marked teeth on the crankshaft. But its run like this for years - maybe this is right?
Can anyone confirm? Doesn't look right to me but also cant see how its jumped teeth against the crankshaft.

 

[6feetdown]

Sorry to jump on your thread Stroppymonkey, but my wacker plate might just be more poorly than yours is!
I made the easy mistake of loaning it to someone who's taken several months to get it back to me - and now it wont start. I initially thought bad fuel, but it then stopped turning over all together!
Subsequent dismantling has revealed several issues and more questions than answers. Its a Hatz 1B20 Diesel.
So for those more in the know with these things than I am, when I was trying to find TDC, the push rods seemed to be all over the place - like the timing was out. They did what they should do and in the right order but not with what I would expect in relation to the piston position...
Upon pulling the timing cover off the engine I discover the only obvious timing mark I could find was 180deg plus 3 teeth out of position from where I would imagine it would sit in between the two marked teeth on the crankshaft. But its run like this for years - maybe this is right?
Can anyone confirm? Doesn't look right to me but also cant see how its jumped teeth against the crankshaft.

My old 1 was partially stripped free by a fitter. No obvious damage from there it was set to get expensive. If they are tipped a bit too much apparently the oil goes where it shouldn't. Mine had exactly same issue ended up buying a new 1 after pricing up various parts

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

There is a timing mark on the cam gear here

 

[V8Druid]

is this the crank mark?

should they be adjacent to each other or all in line through the centre line of the two components?? guessing in line as it would not be possible to have the teeth adjacent, unless there's an idler between them

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

Can you show the camshaft In relation to the
lobes

 

[Gunners]

Can you show the camshaft In relation to the
lobes

Thanks for the replies guys, through some experimenting with setting the timing how I thought it should be, and slowly turning it over to see what the push rods do, I'm happy I have it right. Interestingly enough, when I took it apart again, the gear driving the cams was in a completely different place so it must be one of those things that only lines up once for timing.
Having got the bore cleaned up and the piston rings free'd, its now turning over as it did before. And I think I'm discovering the real reason it wont start - no high pressure fuel to the injector.
I definitely have fuel to the pump, but zero coming out when I'm turning it over. Looking at parts for these, its an expensive item - more than I paid for the whole plate originally! Think I might have reached the end of the road. Auction time maybe?

 

[LKSF]

Have talked about this before but can’t find the thread. My version of boiler problems today. Can anyone point me towards a schematic that shows how the fuel system works on this.
Big Wacker suddenly lost most of its power and started smoking bad. Starts perfectly every time. Just been back and put clean filters into and out of the lift pump. Problem the same . Filters are not clearing air. I was expecting it to pump it back up to tank so surprised by the air staying in filter. Gave up as poxy weather turned to shite here. Might drag it back to HQ for a dry workshop at some point.

First thing I would be asking is what colour was the smoke and why did it start smoking in the first place?

 

[Stroppymonkey]

First thing I would be asking is what colour was the smoke and why did it start smoking in the first place?

I have brought it back to the yard today so it can be assessed in the light and the dry. Unit was bought earlier in year. I washed fuel supply though and cleaned tank a the time. Its been onsite and used sporadically and always been fine. Chucks out black smoke when working heavily once hot. Assume its sipping a bit of sump oil or its coming from the oil bath filter? Its been parked up for (on a 20 deg slope) for a couple of months. Started it up the other day to use, started fine as always, but as soon as you give it full revs and engage the hydraulics it struggles and smokes a light coloured smoke very heavily. I am colourblind, but it looks white/grey to me not blue. Inline filter between tank and lift pump was shitty. Not sure where it came from as as I said, I cleaned the fuel through and fitted a new inline filter at the time. Usually pretty hygeic with refills as well. Next is to strip lift pump as that doesn't seem to do as much as I think i should when manually operating.

 

[V8Druid]

I have brought it back to the yard today so it can be assessed in the light and the dry. Unit was bought earlier in year. I washed fuel supply though and cleaned tank a the time. Its been onsite and used sporadically and always been fine. Chucks out black smoke when working heavily once hot. Assume its sipping a bit of sump oil or its coming from the oil bath filter? Its been parked up for (on a 20 deg slope) for a couple of months. Started it up the other day to use, started fine as always, but as soon as you give it full revs and engage the hydraulics it struggles and smokes a light coloured smoke very heavily. I am colourblind, but it looks white/grey to me not blue. Inline filter between tank and lift pump was shitty. Not sure where it came from as as I said, I cleaned the fuel through and fitted a new inline filter at the time. Usually pretty hygeic with refills as well. Next is to strip lift pump as that doesn't seem to do as much as I think i should when manually operating.

start at the beginning .... ensure the tank, lines etc. are all clean and devoid of water .... having stood a couple of months it's likely to have acquired some condensation - everywhere - the in line'll be paper (almost certainly) which won't pass fuel efficiently once water saturated - fuel starvation can give white/grey smoke .. check the lift pump for gauzes, etc. and as said before - ditto any banjo unions .. wasting your time elsewhere if the fuel supply is not guaranteed to be 100%

 

[Stroppymonkey]

start at the beginning .... ensure the tank, lines etc. are all clean and devoid of water .... having stood a couple of months it's likely to have acquired some condensation - everywhere - the in line'll be paper (almost certainly) which won't pass fuel efficiently once water saturated - fuel starvation can give white/grey smoke .. check the lift pump for gauzes, etc. and as said before - ditto any banjo unions .. wasting your time elsewhere if the fuel supply is not guaranteed to be 100%

Same as I’m always telling the lads when they ring me up with a boiler they can’t fix.. have you got a clean flow of fuel to the pump and what’s the pump pressure !
Slightly different system here I suppose and I’m not sure where the restriction lies.
All part of the fun!

 

[Dandandiggerman]

One thing to watch out for on machines on sites is if they’ve had hvo in them aswell as diesel, I’ve had it a lot this year with the big generators, when it mixes can get a black gunk form which will only get worse when left sat, has said clear anything with fuel in even soak the injector in something if needed.

Used to work on these wackers years ago but I do t remember much more than the basics about them, we used to have 3 strapped together and run off a remote control to consolidate the track bed ballast before laying the railway, serious bit of kit