The end of "cheap" Chinese machines?

[Brendan]

Chinese diggers face 83.5% duty after JCB dumping complaint

Fair trade body finds UK kit prices were undercut by 23%

www.constructionenquirer.com

From what I found they were not drastically cheaper than other manufacturers, sany was barely 2k cheaper

 

[doobin]

'Undercut' by 23%?

Am I reading that right? I'd say they are priced right, you get at least 23% less digger for your money.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Chinese diggers face 83.5% duty after JCB dumping complaint

Fair trade body finds UK kit prices were undercut by 23%

www.constructionenquirer.com

From what I found they were not drastically cheaper than other manufacturers, sany was barely 2k cheaper

Very very interesting. Folk are slowly waking up to the fact at last as to what the Chinese are actually up to

 

[V8Druid]

Very very interesting. Folk are slowly waking up to the fact at last as to what the Chinese are actually up to

think Trump is planning on wading into them too, with some 'proper' tariffs, from what I read the other night

 

[TiltyShaun]

Chinese diggers face 83.5% duty after JCB dumping complaint

Fair trade body finds UK kit prices were undercut by 23%

www.constructionenquirer.com

From what I found they were not drastically cheaper than other manufacturers, sany was barely 2k cheaper

I think the dealers mark up is higher and they try it on!!
What I want to know is who gets the tariff money??

 

[DaveDCB]

@Regy53 will be able to answer this better than anyone now….. 🫣

 

[Brendan]

I think the dealers mark up is higher and they try it on!!
What I want to know is who gets the tariff money??

Would imagine the bulk of the profiteering had disappeared shortly after all the increased transport costs from COVID or the evergreen
I got my 3t in 2021, I tried to have a look back but couldn't my original sany quote, if my memory serves, sany were somewhere around 25k at the time with hydraulic hitch, I've found my original quotes from others at the time
302.7 cr 28.5k
Kx/u27 25.5k or plus 1k with hydraulic hitch
Sv26 24.45k or plus £730 for hydraulic hitch or plus £2.1k for engcon hitch and 4 buckets
8026 26.2k with hydraulic hitch (I ended up mid 27k with engcon hitch, 4 buckets and 3 year service package)
Don't have my original bobcat prices but they were not far off the Volvo.

Looking back, maybe should have went down the yanmar route instead

 

[Brendan]

I think the dealers mark up is higher and they try it on!!
What I want to know is who gets the tariff money??

Starmers back pocket fund

 

[V8Druid]

I think the dealers mark up is higher and they try it on!!
What I want to know is who gets the tariff money??

government ... it's an import duty

 

[Regy53]

@Regy53 will be able to answer this better than anyone now….. 🫣

I dont see this as a big deal.

If you read the goverment side, Sany for example will have a duty of circa 25% but its over 11 tonnes.

the market is 0 -13

Also JCB did this out of desperation, notice they diddnt do it on 0-11 tonnes. Because they are moving factorys to India for minis. They are just as bad its just trying to get one up.

That said obviosuly there should be fair play and all. There findings are there findings given the support JCB push to the goverments etc its probably wise for them to look into it in detail.

I was recently in China and a lot of the cost saving imo is in labour via robots.... who can work in the cold, the dark and 24/7...

China manufacturing are finally putting together a good package to offer customers in with some manufactures (sany being one) and JCB are worried.
Go figure.

 

[Regy53]

Hasten to add im not a mad "pro china" person i get it we want british manufacturing. However There is only Komatsu and JCB, JCB who are moving things out the UK and Komatsu who only build a certain few products. Every manufacture will be using china somthing or others its just the way it is.

 

[Regy53]

TRA recommends new measures to protect UK excavator industry

A new anti-dumping measure ranging from 33.03% to 83.5% could benefit UK excavator producers by up to £3.4 million per year, the TRA has found.

www.gov.uk

I read the below last night, offers some insite

https://trade-remedies-doc-storage-prod-eu-west-2.s3.amazonaws.com/AD0047%20-%20Statement%20of%20Essential%20Facts%20%28DUMPING%29_20241125172648.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAYZWDECOOZORSIEWW%2F20241128%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20241128T162503Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=e7b74b24294620eea5ba8f926ab9ef927ba5dd7b8bbc52b1973ce22ab88d913e

ultimatly it diddnt hurt them that much

PROFITS GROW AT JCB AS MARKET OUTLOOK BECOMES MORE UNCERTAIN

www.jcb.com

 

[V8Druid]

I read the below last night, offers some insight


ultimately it didn't hurt them that much

hell's teeth ... did you read ALL of that ?

 

[Regy53]

hell's teeth ... did you read ALL of that ?

I read a good bit of it as I wanted to understand what and how. Some of it made no sense I think in general the UK government are just doing it to satisfy JCB who they want onside.
It really is weird when they go 11 tonne up as the sales beyond 13 tonne is nowhere near as big as 13 tonne and below. Especially for JCB.

 

[Lancs Lad]

hell's teeth ... did you read ALL of that ?

I've actually read a bit also....

Couple of salient points :
As the sole governing party in the PRC, the CCP (Chinese Communist Party)
assumes an all-encompassing leadership role within the country. This
includes the ability to exercise control over the PRC’s economy via both state
owned enterprises (SOEs) and private enterprises. For example, Article 19 of
the 2018 revision of the Companies Law of the PRC states that not only must
PRC companies “establish CCP branches in companies to carry out activities
of the Chinese Communist Party” when required, but that they must “provide
necessary conditions to facilitate the activities of the Party.” The impact of this
can be seen in the fact that in 2021 over 92% of the top 500 companies in the
PRC hosted government party cells, with the expectation that this number will
rise to 100% given a change in governance requirements in 2018.

And..;
This influence is clearest in SOEs such as the Liugong Group, which is not
only entirely state-owned, but actively promotes its alignment with government
policy. However, the influence of the GoC also extends to the private sector.
For example, while the Sany Group is not an SOE, the TRA identified that
there was at least one leading PRC politician and a senior member of the
GoC either holding a director position or being a member of the board.

 

[V8Druid]

I've actually read a bit also....

Couple of salient points :
As the sole governing party in the PRC, the CCP (Chinese Communist Party)
assumes an all-encompassing leadership role within the country. This
includes the ability to exercise control over the PRC’s economy via both state
owned enterprises (SOEs) and private enterprises. For example, Article 19 of
the 2018 revision of the Companies Law of the PRC states that not only must
PRC companies “establish CCP branches in companies to carry out activities
of the Chinese Communist Party” when required, but that they must “provide
necessary conditions to facilitate the activities of the Party.” The impact of this
can be seen in the fact that in 2021 over 92% of the top 500 companies in the
PRC hosted government party cells, with the expectation that this number will
rise to 100% given a change in governance requirements in 2018.

And..;
This influence is clearest in SOEs such as the Liugong Group, which is not
only entirely state-owned, but actively promotes its alignment with government
policy. However, the influence of the GoC also extends to the private sector.
For example, while the Sany Group is not an SOE, the TRA identified that
there was at least one leading PRC politician and a senior member of the
GoC either holding a director position or being a member of the board.

I got well past that bit

 

[V8Druid]

I read a good bit of it as I wanted to understand what and how. Some of it made no sense I think in general the UK government are just doing it to satisfy JCB who they want onside.
It really is weird when they go 11 tonne up as the sales beyond 13 tonne is nowhere near as big as 13 tonne and below. Especially for JCB.

think you hit the nail on the head with the fact that JCB are moving their smaller unit production to India

 

[Lancs Lad]

It's a complex topic and a few ways to look at this situation but I still believe it's a wise move.
Hasn't happened overnight and the fact Labour have carried it through should mean it's not just some Tory backhander...
Ultimately China does not give a ff about us and we are a simple cash cow...why on earth should we fund their war machine willy nilly at the expense of our own businesses.

Got a mate in CCTV installs and says one of first questions he gets now on big jobs is where is your products made ? we cannot have any chinese manufactured product onsite..

 

[Storrsy]

think you hit the nail on the head with the fact that JCB are moving their smaller unit production to India

And the fact Cat has done the same in China. I guess alot of the other main manufacturers won't be far behind in following suit. Sad really

 

[Lancs Lad]

I read a good bit of it as I wanted to understand what and how. Some of it made no sense I think in general the UK government are just doing it to satisfy JCB who they want onside.
It really is weird when they go 11 tonne up as the sales beyond 13 tonne is nowhere near as big as 13 tonne and below. Especially for JCB.

Agreed that struck me as odd.