Expansion ramblings

[Furniss]

This is a question that will likely get jumped on by everyone saying things like "cant get decent blokes" "nobody cares about the standards like you do" "you end up working just to pay your staff" "more stress for same money" so ive got some of them out of the way early

Seems like its genuinely difficult to expand though , expand as in 1 or 2 blokes that is, our job seems not to scale up very easily, to be sufficiently efficient to make it work you prob have to double the workforce and have another team out earning (and all the hassle that will involve), but then finding 2 good blokes and kitting them out to be independent is a big if not impossible job (maybe thats why companies expand through acquisition)
A few seem to team up with other similar people to work together, but when one partie has all the expense and insurance etc its a bit difficult come divvying up.

You could go the one xtra bloke and have them doing seperate jobs some of the time and with you the rest, but that still means running plant and materials around for them as well as trying to organize the job your doing yourself, that might not be worth the hassle.


Be really interested to hear about other peoples thoughts and experiences good or bad when it comes to taking people on.

 

[sjs5060]

Fwiw I’m completely on my own and have loads of drawings for interesting good earning jobs on my desk. Can’t bother pricing them tho as I need at least 1 lad with me, and to be honest I’ve had my fill of groundworkers, and half decent ones work for their selves and the rest are garbage.

in my experience a 2 man gang is easy to manage and can earn good coin, 3 can earn more but sometimes you can’t do certain jobs because it’s not cost effective for a 3 man gang, and it’s not worth having another van kitted out for the few time you want to split the gang up.

2 gangs is a waste of time, you always end up leaving your job to sort something out for them, you know the usual, dumper won’t start, sthil saw cord snapped, we don’t understand the drawings you end up with 2 gangs doing nothing half the time and you running about like a ferret on speed.

imho to have lads you need at least 3 gangs, that should just about earn enough that you don’t have to be on site so you can spend all your time riding around wiping their arses and fixing what they break. Ask me how I know

So there you are, either small as you are or 3 plus gangs, but if you think employing 6-9 groundworkers is the way forwards your on better drugs than I am.

I‘m also very interested to here others opinions on this one

 

[doobin]

Machinery over labour every single time.

 

[Furniss]

Machinery over labour every single time.

For our work im pretty well kitted out - you can only drive one thing at once.
You have some help @doobin dont you, whats your setup look like ?

 

[Gunners]

Since I had a reshuffle and went back to working on my own, my belly's done nothing but expand with beer and fine food

Honestly, its a question I ponder regularly but for me, there's a huge dead space somewhere between 3 and 15 guys where the hassle doesn't outweigh the extra earnings. Over 15 or so I believe it starts to make financial sense again - probably because you can employ someone to sort the hassle!

 

[Furniss]

The question is probably driven by not wanting to say "no" - otherwise why do people even go through the pain and risk of expansion.

 

[Furniss]

Since I had a reshuffle and went back to working on my own, my belly's done nothing but expand with beer and fine food

Honestly, its a question I ponder regularly but for me, there's a huge dead space somewhere between 3 and 15 guys where the hassle doesn't outweigh the extra earnings. Over 15 or so I believe it starts to make financial sense again - probably because you can employ someone to sort the hassle!

Haven't you found some decent lads to tackle some jobs with @Gunners ?

 

[V8Druid]

running about like a ferret on speed.

must remember that one

 

[DaveDCB]

The big question is do you NEED to expand? Ie requirement for more money at the end of the year for yourself?(hopefully) or is it just to keep up with demand ?

 

[Quattromike]

Imho if someone who can run themselves or a side crew and do the work to a decent standard then generally they work for themselves. Like just about everyone here. As mentioned any more than 2 or 3 man gang then it needs to be a different scale like 12-15 crew.
Or family, grow your own workers

 

[Furniss]

The big question is do you NEED to expand? Ie requirement for more money at the end of the year for yourself?(hopefully) or is it just to keep up with demand ?

Demand and having to turn down opportunities.

 

[sjs5060]

The question is probably driven by not wanting to say "no" - otherwise why do people even go through the pain and risk of expansion.

I’ve got to say going from 10 lads back to just myself the most liberating thing in the world is learning to say no, why should you feel obliged to do stuff for people. In my experience most folk wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire. I take great pleasure in say no and just doing the jobs I want too

 

[Furniss]

Imho if someone who can run themselves or a side crew and do the work to a decent standard then generally they work for themselves. Like just about everyone here. As mentioned any more than 2 or 3 man gang then it needs to be a different scale like 12-15 crew.
Or family, grow your own workers

We have one lass and shes seen me cursing far too often to want to be involved

 

[Lancs Lad]

There's also the angle that over 5 staff the HSE regs start getting more serious 🫣

 

[Smiffy]

Imho if someone who can run themselves or a side crew and do the work to a decent standard then generally they work for themselves. Like just about everyone here. As mentioned any more than 2 or 3 man gang then it needs to be a different scale like 12-15 crew.
Or family, grow your own workers

There are plenty of ground workers capable of running a second team but they are bl**** expensive. A really topnotch ground worker for the right firm can earn as much as a plumber or a spark. But then they can earn the company a lot of money. However groundworks does seem to attract some real air heads.

 

[Giles]

Since I had a reshuffle and went back to working on my own, my belly's done nothing but expand with beer and fine food

Honestly, its a question I ponder regularly but for me, there's a huge dead space somewhere between 3 and 15 guys where the hassle doesn't outweigh the extra earnings. Over 15 or so I believe it starts to make financial sense again - probably because you can employ someone to sort the hassle!

This is the crux of it, nail on the head

got up to 10-12 guys on 3 jobs turning over £1m plus but was such a headache and stressful and so much problem solving i enjoy now just being 2 or 3 of us if we can find a new young lad to bring on, but again had it pitfalls some days just want to bum around and do yard jobs but lads there need to be kept busy. And bigger jobs can’t be taken on in sensible timescale by 2 or 3 people etc,

you need to go big and not care about the details or just do generic site work with low standards and employ a few ppl to manage the team as they’ll always let you down.

I’ve looked for some smaller just getting started younger lad to bring into jobs might have a labourer etc but can’t find anyone suitable or all think they should be doing their own jobs not subbing to someone Despite being great learning opportunity.

 

[V8Druid]

Stay as you are @Furniss ... nothing but grief and stress ..... learn to tell ppl that you can do it, but in your time frame ... they either wait or go elsewhere ... most will wait if they really want you to work for them
I used to run 12 blokes ... was a total nightmare, just keeping them busy, making sure they all had drg.s, materials, etc. etc. and then checking that some of them had actually done as required... then get all the quotes/invoicing done ... your life is NEVER your own EVER ... 4-6 weeks to try and get ahead enough/plan a day or two off .. holidays were a shutdown - end of
through natural selection I ended up with just two brilliant lads, who I could trust to do it as I would want/expect/myself ... and made more money (profit) than ever with a big labour force ... tailored work load to suit labour force (three of us) and anyone who couldn't REALLY wait .. tried to accommodate, but had to be a regular and desperate. Otherwise it was ... " we'd be happy to do it - when we can if you're prepared to wait " ....... and everyone knew that was how it was

 

[V8Druid]

Demand and having to turn down opportunities.

there WILL BE plenty more

 

[V8Druid]

I’ve got to say going from 10 lads back to just myself the most liberating thing in the world is learning to say no, why should you feel obliged to do stuff for people. In my experience most folk wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire. I take great pleasure in say no and just doing the jobs I want too

spot on

 

[Keif]

I work a 2 man crew putting in fiber mains. Most other crews run 7+ people. I get 2/3rds of what they get done by using machines more and working smart(and not wasting time on phones, lol) They get more footage but I don't think they pocket much more if any more $ than me.

Like others said I would have to up to multiple crews running at the same time to really reap the rewards.