Steel Framed Building

[Monkeybusiness]

Right then chaps, I’ve got planning for a 24m x 15m (80x50ft) agricultural portal building and have had a couple of quotes which seem expensive (but this is not something I pretend to know about, so they may be right I guess!).

It is 4 x 6m bays, 6m to eaves, approx 7.5m to ridge.

Posts (8no) are 356x171 ub45kg, rafters (8no) are 254x146 ub31kg, there are 4x 203x133 ub25kg gable posts. Eaves ties (1 bay) are 76.1CHS. It is to be cleated for z purlins to carry an insulated box section roof, and box section sides.

I’ve had 3 prices for the supply of the above (painted) including 190/2 eaves beams and 177/1.6 roof z purlins (no cladding/side z purlins etc) and they are all within a couple of hundred quid of each other. I’ve also had a price for the steel with a view to fabricating it myself, but would prefer something glued together by someone who knows what they are doing obviously.

Anyone care to guess what sort of figures I’ve been quoted?!

 

[maz]

£20,000 - £30,000 ?

Was having a look not long ago and gave up pretty soon after seeing the prices. I will probably go with a traditional build that I can pay for in stages.

 

[V8Druid]

Right then chaps, I’ve got planning for a 24m x 15m (80x50ft) agricultural portal building and have had a couple of quotes which seem expensive (but this is not something I pretend to know about, so they may be right I guess!).

It is 4 x 6m bays, 6m to eaves, approx 7.5m to ridge.

Posts (8no) are 356x171 ub45kg, rafters (8no) are 254x146 ub31kg, there are 4x 203x133 ub25kg gable posts. Eaves ties (1 bay) are 76.1CHS. It is to be cleated for z purlins to carry an insulated box section roof, and box section sides.

I’ve had 3 prices for the supply of the above (painted) including 190/2 eaves beams and 177/1.6 roof z purlins (no cladding/side z purlins etc) and they are all within a couple of hundred quid of each other. I’ve also had a price for the steel with a view to fabricating it myself, but would prefer something glued together by someone who knows what they are doing obviously.

Anyone care to guess what sort of figures I’ve been quoted?!

I'd be looking at upping the rafter size -- sounds very light for the span .... what's the structural calc.s for snow loading say? ....'s a big roof.
WDA had several collapse round this way many years ago when they skimped on the rafter steel.
305 x 165 x 40'd be a lot stiffer
I assume that there will be full wind bracing in the end bay with the eaves ties too? ....If it was mine I'd want eaves ties, full length... makes erection so much easier , for the limited additional cost of the ties.
What have you been quoted for the materials only? Bear in mind a good stockholder should be able to supply it all cut to length/angle required, etc.
Used to buy a lot in pre-cut as the costs on a good load were minimal, cheaper on waste, as they could 'nest it' with other jobs and zero faff when it arrived ... straight on the benches/trestles and fab it. .... only in house cut the smaller or really fiddly/weird stuff on a lot of jobs
like this sort thing .. corner hip rafter in a big timber frame roof .... compound cutting's a bit beyond most stockholders capabilities

 

[Mintsauce]

Local smithy says he doesn't bother doing these steel buildings these days as the big firms have better buying power/economies of scale etc which means he can't compete.

I think he mentioned Mole Valley Farmers were the best value at the time.

Obviously if you're buying off the shelf. If you're looking for something special or different the price is bound to increase.

I can't comment on price per sq meter but I bet cheapest prices = cheap build and not necessarily best buy.

 

[JD450A]

Around £50,000.

 

[Smiffy]

Look on eBay
There are usually plenty for sale second hand and they are really cheap dismantled and often virtually free if you take them down

 

[V8Druid]

the biggest cost is the floor and the cladding ... the steel is a small percentile of these, so upping the steel spec. shouldn't result in a huge change in costs the steel is purely down to weight (per metre of what's used) ... virtually the same fab costs

 

[Monkeybusiness]

This spec is the heaviest steel I’ve been offered by the various firms approached - it means nothing to me but I appreciate it is a big roof and I agree it wants to be as strong as possible! I’m happy to pay more for a better building and will enquire as to uprating it further.

A complete building with all cladding/doors etc as a kit is around £30k - a concrete slab etc would see the price closer to £50k.

Just the steel work (4 portals weighing less than 1.5 tonnes each) plus bracing, and the pressed z-purlins for the roof is quoted as £12500 plus vat. The steel (angles cut etc) and purlins is well under £8k delivered in (to me, with no buying power at all) so £4500 to weld it together. I had £10k in mind as a generous allowance for the steelwork but am obviously miles out/tight/a numpty (probably all of the above!)....

 

[V8Druid]

This spec is the heaviest steel I’ve been offered by the various firms approached - it means nothing to me but I appreciate it is a big roof and I agree it wants to be as strong as possible! I’m happy to pay more for a better building and will enquire as to uprating it further.

A complete building with all cladding/doors etc as a kit is around £30k - a concrete slab etc would see the price closer to £50k.

Just the steel work (4 portals weighing less than 1.5 tonnes each) plus bracing, and the pressed z-purlins for the roof is quoted as £12500 plus vat. The steel (angles cut etc) and purlins is well under £8k delivered in (to me, with no buying power at all) so £4500 to weld it together. I had £10k in mind as a generous allowance for the steelwork but am obviously miles out/tight/a numpty (probably all of the above!)....

wouldn't take long to knock those four portals together TBH so £1100+ each is a serious earner ... however, there's all the rest of the extra bits too, so think the £4.5k's pretty reasonable ... cleats, haunches, centre haunches, wind bracing, sole plates, and all the miscellaneous posts etc Plus all the connection bolts ... well in the ball park IMHDO
but if you're confident and don't count your labour

as a complete kit though .... will take a bit of beating, with all you say is included

 

[Monkeybusiness]

I’ve allowed a decent lump in my £8k for cleats/haunches etc - the main steel (8x columns, 8x rafters, 4x gable posts and 8x eaves ties) come in at only £4k delivered, including cuts. The z purlins are around £2300 delivered, and that’s just from a quick internet search. I’m sure I can get that price down pretty easily though.

I know everyone is in business to make money and don’t have an issue with that, and I also know that the prices quoted must be the going rate as it is so close across the board. I am just surprised at the total price is all!

One of my best mates (who was an incredible fabricator) was going to knock this up for me and we were going to throw it up as a bit of a joint project - unfortunately he was diagnosed with a brain tumour in November and was dead by Christmas (aged 39)! The whole job has lost its excitement now but I need to pull my finger out and get it sorted tbh...

 

[V8Druid]

......I am just surprised at the total price is all!

One of my best mates (who was an incredible fabricator) was going to knock this up for me and we were going to throw it up as a bit of a joint project - unfortunately he was diagnosed with a brain tumour in November and was dead by Christmas (aged 39)! The whole job has lost its excitement now but I need to pull my finger out and get it sorted tbh...

....... zeds're a good price and as you say the steel element is not huge .... but is that shot blasted, primed and painted? costly and time consuming .... if you go the DIY route, find a stockholder who can supply the sections pre blasted and primed .. save a lot of time later.
bear in mind it all has to be holed .. plates're easy .... if you've a universal metalworker to punch 'em with .... beams can be easy if you've a hand held punch. ..... if you have to drill / broach them ... it takes time.

I have a similar dilemma ... spent me life making these sorts of things ... and was tooled up for it ..... but could not compete with them's doing just steel frame buildings ... they have whole processing lines that cut and hole in one process .. but for a one off could beat 'em hands down.

now for me own shed when I need the steel, I am in a quandary ... yes I can do it .. slowly .. with what I have, or let someone else earn and knock it out PDQ ... really depends on how they can cope with my specific detail requirements for odds and ends / special bits

end of the day though ........ the slab and the cladding is always going to be your biggest cost, by far

 

[V8Druid]

just realised that your stated pitch of 1:5 is a bloody shallow roof for 50 ft span ... only just 10 degrees .... 15 is the norm ... especially for a 10" rafter

 

[Monkeybusiness]

just realised that your stated pitch of 1:5 is a bloody shallow roof for 50 ft span ... only just 10 degrees .... 15 is the norm ... especially for a 10" rafter

I’m scared now! I’ve not spec’d the steel sizes, just given the firms quoting the building size. I can only assume they all calculate loadings etc - they are all proper firms that do just this.

In terms of paint, my thoughts were to chuck another couple of grand at it and have it galv’d, but it needs to be right first time for that!

 

[Gez_lewis]

We do quite a few agri sheds rough price for agri sheds is around £4 sq ft for the shed 1.5 sq ft to errect and £100 per leg hole for digging and setting leg base/boxes.
Price hasn't moved a lot in 30 years really

 

[V8Druid]

I’m scared now! I’ve not spec’d the steel sizes, just given the firms quoting the building size. I can only assume they all calculate loadings etc - they are all proper firms that do just this.

In terms of paint, my thoughts were to chuck another couple of grand at it and have it galv’d, but it needs to be right first time for that!

well they certainly should ..... but then so did the ones who built the WDA units that collapsed with 2 ft of snow on 'em .. presumably
would be worth asking what snow load bearing they have calculated for, for the roof ... at 10 degs it'll lay where it falls .... and we've been getting plenty the last few years ... the last three lines of para 2 are 'interesting' http://www.mcrma.co.uk/pdf/Snow guidance document Dec 2014.pdf
worth reading and consulting ... dunno your location but it is relevant
apologies to be the harbinger of 'iffyness' / bad news, but you really need to be informed on this sort of stuff, to do it right first time and avoid any ongoing issues

Galv is as you say a long term solution ... and if the steel is right, the best option, but adds a LOT ... plus extra tranny costs.
do your quoters offer the galv option .. worth sussing the difference

 

[Mogman]

You could always have a heated roof then the snow wouldn’t stick

 

[V8Druid]

You could always have a heated roof then the snow wouldn’t stick

or fit a couple of big vibe units to the steel frame

 

[Monkeybusiness]

well they certainly should ..... but then so did the ones who built the WDA units that collapsed with 2 ft of snow on 'em .. presumably
would be worth asking what snow load bearing they have calculated for, for the roof ... at 10 degs it'll lay where it falls .... and we've been getting plenty the last few years ... the last three lines of para 2 are 'interesting' http://www.mcrma.co.uk/pdf/Snow guidance document Dec 2014.pdf
worth reading and consulting ... dunno your location but it is relevant
apologies to be the harbinger of 'iffyness' / bad news, but you really need to be informed on this sort of stuff, to do it right first time and avoid any ongoing issues

Galv is as you say a long term solution ... and if the steel is right, the best option, but adds a LOT ... plus extra tranny costs.
do your quoters offer the galv option .. worth sussing the difference

Went out for tea with the Mrs so haven’t had a chance to look at this until now. We never (I’m 42 and it hasn’t happened yet) get significant snow, but that makes very interesting reading and I totally take your point. This thread has definitely opened my eyes/given me some questioning material - thank you!

 

[V8Druid]

Went out for tea with the Mrs so haven’t had a chance to look at this until now. We never (I’m 42 and it hasn’t happened yet) get significant snow, but that makes very interesting reading and I totally take your point. This thread has definitely opened my eyes/given me some questioning material - thank you!

I used to do a lot crane hire for several building fabricators locally ... if they booked 2 days, I'd always be sure to have the third day clear too ... they almost always needed it .... very rare that a building went together properly - there was always the third day for the snagging gang and the gas axe ... which was really great for the galv-ed ones
whoever you choose .. do so after sussing their reputation .....
only exception was our own stuff .... made bloody sure that it was all right ... site time snagging was dead time

there is a lot to be said for DIY if you have the ability and capacity ...

 

[diggerjones]

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php
Try on here dan. There's a section where you put all your dimensions in. Its the "quote me" section