Benford 3t 4wd Manual Dumper won't select gear

[PIgsfoot]

Hi,

I got an old 3t Benford manual 4wd dumper ( i think its 3t, maybe 4 ) a few weeks ago for a self build project, sold as seen. It was delivered to me and i tried it out when we got it off the trailer, everything works as expected and i managed to drive it around in all gears inc reverse although gear selection was a little hard and the clutch had to be pushed all the way to the floor.

I went to use the dumper today and i can't get it into any gear, reverse is the closest but it grinds like hell when trying, I did manage to get in into reverse once and it wouldn't stop creeping.

I'm no mechanic so not sure where to start, i have attached a couple of photos which i thought were odd when looking around it, one shows a massive bolt into the casing just below the gear selector, its tight and i have no idea what its for other than it looks new. The other photo shows what i presume is the brake reservoir which is practically overflowing, i thought i'd show this as there is a pipe going into the side of the gearbox ( maybe bell housing ) from the reservoir so i didn't know if the clutch may also be hydraulic and its to full stopping circulation.. if that's a thing ?

Any pointers would be appreciated else i'm going to have to call a mobile mechanic i guess that's experienced with plant.
Thanks

 

[V8Druid]

Hi,

I got an old 3t Benford manual 4wd dumper ( i think its 3t, maybe 4 ) a few weeks ago for a self build project, sold as seen. It was delivered to me and i tried it out when we got it off the trailer, everything works as expected and i managed to drive it around in all gears inc reverse although gear selection was a little hard and the clutch had to be pushed all the way to the floor.

I went to use the dumper today and i can't get it into any gear, reverse is the closest but it grinds like hell when trying, I did manage to get in into reverse once and it wouldn't stop creeping.

I'm no mechanic so not sure where to start, i have attached a couple of photos which i thought were odd when looking around it, one shows a massive bolt into the casing just below the gear selector, its tight and i have no idea what its for other than it looks new. The other photo shows what i presume is the brake reservoir which is practically overflowing, i thought i'd show this as there is a pipe going into the side of the gearbox ( maybe bell housing ) from the reservoir so i didn't know if the clutch may also be hydraulic and its to full stopping circulation.. if that's a thing ?

Any pointers would be appreciated else i'm going to have to call a mobile mechanic i guess that's experienced with plant.
Thanks

if you have a hydraulic clutch, as you suspect, you may need to bleed the slave cylinder, to purge it of air, perhaps ... or the seals have let go in the slave, but as the reservoir is full (if that is a clutch reservoir) it's unlikely as the reservoir would have emptied from fluid bypassing the seals in the slave cylinder .. most likely wants bleeding - does the clutch pedal feel spongy or firm?
some pix of the bell housing where the pipe goes would be handy
God knows what that M16 bolt is doing ???
could be an oil level plug (orignal has been lost and sub.-ed with that bolt)

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

The bolt I think replaces a grub screw! Yes we need pictures of the bell housing! And the rear of the engine where the gearbox is bolted to.

 

[PIgsfoot]

Thanks for the replies @V8Druid & @Mick-the-fitter, much appreciated. I have just been out for another look and got it wrong sorry, it looks like the pipe from the reservoir goes to the rear axle as per the photo. While under there i grabbed a picture of the bottom of the Clutch pedal too if that helps.

Maybe it just needs adjusting ?

The dumper is proper old so unlikely i guess to be a hydraulic clutch after all.

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

Can we see the other side of the gearbox and engine

 

[V8Druid]

Thanks for the replies @V8Druid & @Mick-the-fitter, much appreciated. I have just been out for another look and got it wrong sorry, it looks like the pipe from the reservoir goes to the rear axle as per the photo. While under there i grabbed a picture of the bottom of the Clutch pedal too if that helps.

Maybe it just needs adjusting ?

The dumper is proper old so unlikely i guess to be a hydraulic clutch after all.

so cable operated clutch BTLs (by the looks) of it ...
probably needs adjusting to take up slack, which it looks to have at the pedal.
I would expect to see a nut either side of the bracket that the outer's adjuster passes through, so that you can vary the degree/amount of outer between the bracket and the pedal ...
that, as is, is simply holding the outer in position, without any facility to adjust it ------
unless there is and adjuster on the inner cable at the clutch lever end, at the bell housing ...
more pix of all aspects please

 

[Steve]

If you adjust the clutch be sure to leave a little free play so that the thrust bearing isn’t touching the pressure plate permanently.

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

I’m guessing clutch fork and shaft type! There is a cotter pin holding the fork to shaft, it wear! That’s a box out job

 

[PIgsfoot]

Just thought i'd upload these quickly as been out all day at work. I'm going to go out with some tools and remove the whole top plate in a bit to get a better view. Fingers crossed @V8Druid its just an adjustment and not a gearbox out job like @Mick-the-fitter has suggested

 

[PIgsfoot]

Have removed the floor plate and got a better view. Tried the clutch pedal while the foot plate is off and the cable / gearbox arm only moves about 1" at most. Feeling the arm at the end of the cable there is a very slight movement as suggested by @Steve

Also, and i don't presume this is good news at all... if i press the clutch lever down as far as i can with my foot it still wont go into gear and reverse is still grinding

However, the gear stick is really wobbly, i dont expect it to be tight by any means but still this is really slopping all over the place

Sorry, one last note. There is also a switch connected to the pedal with an electrical connection. No idea what its for or why its there if its a mechanical linkage but thought its worth mentioning

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

The arm on the clutch splined shaft can be moved to a different place to adjust it!

 

[PIgsfoot]

Photo of the switch connected to the clutch pedal

 

[PIgsfoot]

The arm on the clutch splined shaft can be moved to a different place to adjust it!

Thanks @Mick-the-fitter, would that make a difference if i have pressed the clutch lever down as far as it will go with my foot and it still doesn't go into gear

 

[V8Druid]

The arm on the clutch splined shaft can be moved to a different place to adjust it!

or the cable outer ends can be installed properly with some adjustable nuts either side of the bracket

Sorry, one last note. There is also a switch connected to the pedal with an electrical connection. No idea what its for or why its there if its a mechanical linkage but thought its worth mentioning

quite possibly a 'lockout' to stop it being started in gear ... have to depress clutch before starter will turn over

 

[V8Druid]

or the cable outer ends can be installed properly with some adjustable nuts either side of the bracket

quite possibly a 'lockout' to stop it being started in gear ... have to depress clutch before starter will turn over

looking again at the one pic from under the gearbox end of the cable ... it does have a back up nut on the back of the cable mount bracket ... could try slacking off the top nut and adjusting up the underside nut to take out all but a smidge of slack

 

[PIgsfoot]

Thanks @V8Druid, same question really for you as @Mick-the-fitter. Would adjusting the cable make a difference if i have pressed the clutch lever down as far as it will go with my foot and it still doesn't go into gear

 

[V8Druid]

Thanks @V8Druid, same question really for you as @Mick-the-fitter. Would adjusting the cable make a difference if i have pressed the clutch lever down as far as it will go with my foot and it still doesn't go into gear

by adjusting the outer at the g/box end bracket you are moving the actuation point further away from the toggle arm, allowing more travel for the cable....looking at the inner's 'limp-ish' appearance, you may get enough to effect a solution.
think of it like adjusting the brake cable on a push bike, to get more pull at the brake lever, to stop it striking the handle bar.
don't have it so tight though, as to be dragging the thrust bearing on the clutch plate's toggles

 

[Mick-the-fitter]

or the cable outer ends can be installed properly with some adjustable nuts either side of the bracket

quite possibly a 'lockout' to stop it being started in gear ... have to depress clutch before starter will turn over

Starter inhibitor switch, so it won’t start without clutch depressed, what happens if you put it in gear before you start, and then put the clutch pedal down and turn the key to start, it sounds at the moment that your dumper has the carbon ring type bearing and has disintegrated, meaning the metal part of the fork is trying to depress the pressure plate!

 

[PIgsfoot]

Thanks @Mick-the-fitter & @V8Druid.

Didn't manage to get on it last night but have had a go today. I tried adjusting the cable at the gear box end but no joy so i moved the lever toward the back ( up ) by two splines and got a small bite on the pedal. I have then re-adjusted the cable and is all now working great.

Dodged a bullet there i think without having to remove the gearbox.

 

[V8Druid]

Thanks @Mick-the-fitter & @V8Druid.

Didn't manage to get on it last night but have had a go today. I tried adjusting the cable at the gear box end but no joy so i moved the lever toward the back ( up ) by two splines and got a small bite on the pedal. I have then re-adjusted the cable and is all now working great.

Dodged a bullet there i think without having to remove the gearbox.

the sort of result we all like to hear about