Anyone got "previous" dealing with UKPN?

[Al_1977]

Afternoon all.

So I'm over a year into "dealings with" UKPN... they're a fookin nightmare.

Started off as I have a barn which is just over 300sqM on the curtailage of my old farm... and they have a 11kv line which hangs over the top. The barn footing wasn't/isn't substantial enough when built and over the years has started to sink, one corner has broken away - the corner right near the pole holding up the powerline, the surveyor who drew it up for the planning application said that corner was 200mm lower than the rest of the barn... but it looks to be getting worse (dwarf wall has cracked and crack is opening up).

Many UKPN wallys have been out to see it, before I got told the only thing they can do (as the cable cannot be sheithed, or switched off) is put it underground for the run between the poles that pass my barn. The estimate for which is £25k+VAT which naturally they expect me to pay.

At this point I had already ordered a new steel portal frame barn, so I ended up demolishing some old piggeries to get the footprint approved by planning, then UKPN sent a guy out to do a survey (HSS 40 006b) for that work.... as the new barn still needed siting close to the cable, but we needed to know what distance. This survey advised safe working distance from the cable was minimum 6m. I reckon the cable is only 3m off the top of the barn, which is constructed of timber frame, dwarf brick wall, then upper walls and roof cement board/more likely asbestos.

I may of got the barn up I originally wanted to replace this with, but I still have this derolict barn to deal with, which is too close to the powerline to demolish.

I contacted UKPN legal dept to find out when the line went up, as I've got site plans going back to 1939 showing there was a barn in that spot (whether the same or not I am unsure).... they have come back and told me the line was erected in 1962 and was placed "lawfully".

I can't find any info in the deeds, with regards to wayleaves... so I asked them to confirm definition of "lawfully" and they've come back stating "Lawfully place would be at the time of installation it would have been agreed with current landowner in situate".

Appart from asking for supporting documentation, which I'll be surprised if they can access... I don't really know where to go from here.

Any advise?

 

[pettsy]

I guess it’s how you want to play it with them, does the 11kv line Just supply you? If there’s no wayleave in place then that’s the first thing I would be doing…. No wayleave = serve notice to remove. Do you have a good local land agent who could assist?

 

[Al_1977]

I guess it’s how you want to play it with them, does the 11kv line Just supply you? If there’s no wayleave in place then that’s the first thing I would be doing…. No wayleave = serve notice to remove. Do you have a good local land agent who could assist?

No it passes my boundary and obviously goes onto supply elsewhere, otherwise would be easy to turn off.

I can't find anything in the deed-pack about wayleave, deeds go back to 1850.

I'm trying to get as far as I can off my own back at present... as I wasn't expecting the barn to be demising so quickly (I've had the place for 4yrs)... and when I come to take it down - that's going to cost me a fortune I'd not allowed for, trying to keep the expenses to a minimum.

 

[Smiffy]

Someone on the farming forum had a similar problem. Instructed them that on x date the ground 1m away from the pole was being excavated to reduce the level 2m. He would leave the pole there but takes responsibility for it's stability. They moved the pole pretty quick. If you go on any of the farming forums there will be loads of advice as it's a pretty common problem

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Is the pole on your property without a wayleave or easement? If so tell them to get it off your land ASAP. They’ll become helpful then.

 

[Al_1977]

If you go on any of the farming forums there will be loads of advice as it's a pretty common problem

Thanks for that advise.

Is the pole on your property without a wayleave or easement? If so tell them to get it off your land ASAP. They’ll become helpful then.

There's a grey area here, as I don't rightly know... the pole is right on the edge of the barn - in my driveway... I didn't find any info in the deed pack - but that is pretty huge due to the age of the property and the number of times it's changed hands.

Two of the three cables run over the barn tho... not sure how things work if it turns out the pole isn't on my land but the cables run over.

However, UKPN have already eluded to "the then landowner"... I think I'll ask them to find some paperwork.

 

[DaveDCB]

Contact your solicitor who you purchased property with, they should of checked things like this!

 

[Giles]

You can duct the cable yourself then that £25k will only be like £7k for them to underground it.

 

[TiltyShaun]

Get a wayleave surveyor to serve notice of removal. The bill will disappear and they will soon sort it out. The chances of them having any currently valid agreement are less than no chance.

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Thanks for that advise.



There's a grey area here, as I don't rightly know... the pole is right on the edge of the barn - in my driveway... I didn't find any info in the deed pack - but that is pretty huge due to the age of the property and the number of times it's changed hands.

Two of the three cables run over the barn tho... not sure how things work if it turns out the pole isn't on my land but the cables run over.

However, UKPN have already eluded to "the then landowner"... I think I'll ask them to find some paperwork.

Just insist on them removing it - if they have paperwork they will produce it.
The pole locations are the relevant bit, don’t worry about the overhead conductors. If a pole is on your land they need either an easement or a wayleave for it. The fact that the supported network serves other people (and not just you) puts you in a strong negotiating position.

 

[mart1602]

buy a generator and cut the pole down,theyll soon sort it out

 

[mart1602]

and if they have a wayleave they will be paying you ground rent

 

[Al_1977]

Here's a photo.

It's pretty close to the barn, and as mentioned earlier... the first site diagram I have is from 1939 which shows a barn on this spot (was it this barn?, or has the barn been replaced since - I am unsure).

If the barn had been re-built since 1962... the previous owner would of had to of been pretty mental to work so close to a live powerline, although that's not so say it's not a possibility.

As you can see by the crack in the brickwork, which is reflected on the other side, like the corner of the slab has broken away and is moving towards the pole... if the pole was placed after this barn was built - it's possible its presence has undermined the footing and possible cause of its demise (this is the corner which is 200mm lower than the rest of the building). If you were to strip away the bricks and cladding - there is a large timber upright post (about 8'x8'... in that corner of the frame which is taking the load of all that cement board/asbestos. IF the electricity pole is upright, its clear the top of the brickwork is making its way toward the pole.

 

[Bob]

All the services are the same don't or will not help you once had a meter company just would not move a electric meter for me it went on for months so managed to remove meter cable went up and then all down I told client to ring them up and tell them thats all right builders manage to move meter but meters hanging upside down .They were there in about 1 hour to move it client said to me why did they come that quick I told because meter don't work upside down
On your barn could you have it screw piled under footings to stop it going any further or they can lift footing up abit or has barn gone to far for that

 

[GazCro]

View attachment 39664

Here's a photo.

It's pretty close to the barn, and as mentioned earlier... the first site diagram I have is from 1939 which shows a barn on this spot (was it this barn?, or has the barn been replaced since - I am unsure).

If the barn had been re-built since 1962... the previous owner would of had to of been pretty mental to work so close to a live powerline, although that's not so say it's not a possibility.

As you can see by the crack in the brickwork, which is reflected on the other side, like the corner of the slab has broken away and is moving towards the pole... if the pole was placed after this barn was built - it's possible its presence has undermined the footing and possible cause of its demise (this is the corner which is 200mm lower than the rest of the building). If you were to strip away the bricks and cladding - there is a large timber upright post (about 8'x8'... in that corner of the frame which is taking the load of all that cement board/asbestos. IF the electricity pole is upright, its clear the top of the brickwork is making its way toward the pole.

You can't blame the pole for the cracks and settlement of the barn imho it's just been a typical half arsed built ag building.

 

[GazCro]

Had a similar situation a few years ago but with a new building rather than replacement. The plan was to create a new farm yard and build one building within the yard, stone barn one half and covered sheep pens the other bit this would have meant overhead lines running over top of new building. ENWL objected and building had to be split in two to leave clear space under lines.
Caravan site next door said nothing added x number new caravans under the lines and when ENWL realised they came and changed overhead lines to underground around the caravan site at their own expense. The JFDI attitude can work as it did for next door but if you've already had any contact with leccy board you can't claim ignorance.

 

[V8Druid]

IF you can prove the pole is on your ground and you aren't getting annual payment for its presence just serve notice on them to shift it, as has been said

 

[Al_1977]

You can't blame the pole for the cracks and settlement of the barn imho it's just been a typical half arsed built ag building.

It's not a path I would try and pursue.

It's impossible to prove either way.

Besides, I don't give a fook why the barn is falling down... it has to be demolished. If can be done soon.... the more unstable it gets - the more expensive the demolition will be.

 

[Al_1977]

Is the pole on your property without a wayleave or easement? If so tell them to get it off your land ASAP. They’ll become helpful then.

Get a wayleave surveyor to serve notice of removal. The bill will disappear and they will soon sort it out. The chances of them having any currently valid agreement are less than no chance.

and if they have a wayleave they will be paying you ground rent

IF you can prove the pole is on your ground and you aren't getting annual payment for its presence just serve notice on them to shift it, as has been said

The pole location might be tricky to prove.

The wayleave and easement thing... is that just applicable to the pole, or both pole and line. (ie. if poles aren't on your property but line passes over, do they still have to get permission?)

 

[V8Druid]

The pole location might be tricky to prove.

The wayleave and easement thing... is that just applicable to the pole, or both pole and line. (ie. if poles aren't on your property but line passes over, do they still have to get permission?)

it's either inside your boundary or it isn't .... it's less than a foot from your building, so would be reasonable to assume that it is within your curtilage.
you have deed plans and a fixed point with the barn ... either the barn is straying outside your boundary, or the boundary runs between the barn corner and the pole, for the pole NOT to be on your property and therefore subject to easement and way leave payment.
cables running over your property don't count, but must be at a prescribed minimum height from F/L
it is so close to your building, I'd let them prove it's not within your curtilage and pursue it as though it is (after a very good study of your deed plans)