Hello all

[AWilson]

Hello all!

Just joined up to have a nosey at what machines you guys prefer for which jobs as I shall be starting up fairly soon to hire out and buy/sell machines, nothing big or fancy for now, 1.0-1.7t maybe with a high tip or tracked barrow, attachments I was looking at a pecker or 2 maybe.

Currently fully employed fixing plant gear all over cumbria.

More than open to any do's and dont's or any constructive criticism and any top tips for best auctions or sites to buy from.

I've been looking at used machines really, 2-3k Hours 1.0-1.7t something k can throw on the back of my ranger.

Cheers
Ade

 

[doobin]

2-3k hours on machines that size is too much to hire then out with. Patch them up and move em on, yes but you need to be buying cheap.

 

[AWilson]

Cheers Doobin,

Any reason as I'm curious but to hire I'm guessing buying as near as new for the 1.0-1.7t machine is best? Up our neck of the woods there's a couple of company's hiring out machines with well over 8k hours but we are talking 8t+ which I presume is acceptable for that size, I get around alot of machines a day and the average for hire company's seems to be roughly 5k hours even the bigger company's seem to be knocking on the door of 3k for new machines of the smaller units but I know they are out on sites constantly.

2-3k hours on machines that size is too much to hire then out with. Patch them up and move em on, yes but you need to be buying cheap.

 

[JD450A]

Hire market is dead and is a game only for the rich and fools

 

[doobin]

No, buy new. 3 year warranty on things like a Bobcat E10. After three years and with 1000 hours on they still fetch 10k. It's crazy.

Why pay strong money for a machine that's out of warranty that you hope to use hard? I know you can fix them, but your time is money and it's best to be earning by fixing someone elses than loose that potential money fixing your own when you could have had new with warranty for not much more.

 

[AWilson]

No, buy new. 3 year warranty on things like a Bobcat E10. After three years and with 1000 hours on they still fetch 10k. It's crazy.

Why pay strong money for a machine that's out of warranty that you hope to use hard? I know you can fix them, but your time is money and it's best to be earning by fixing someone elses than loose that potential money fixing your own when you could have had new with warranty for not much more.

That was pretty much my first though of buying new as I know machines hold value for sometime thankfully, solid advice for the hire side, I have a good client base and already have a good few people that I've asked would easily hire and I would certainly trust with a machine, it's your average Tom dick and Harry that I don't as I have seen the state of some machines as you can probably guess.

I think for the sales side of things is just basic textbook stuff, buy cheap and sell at a small profit. Question is I've scoured on online ads for machines up to 1.8t on 1700-3000hrs for £8k offers easily, most just need a basic maintenance look over but surely nobody would buy these said machines for £9k+ or is there a demand on 2nd machines?

 

[doobin]

You need contacts you can buy from at money that enables you to make a profit. Online is usually other dealers, so wrong place to look.

As you're pretty confident with spanners, you could try auctions. Eyes wide open, mind.

 

[AWilson]

You need contacts you can buy from at money that enables you to make a profit. Online is usually other dealers, so wrong place to look.

As you're pretty confident with spanners, you could try auctions. Eyes wide open, mind.

I thought as much looking at retail vs the cost of the online sites.

I don't mind a fix up but again the risk is there for a serious hidden fault, fixable but it's the difference between making money and loosing it.

 

[doobin]

I thought as much looking at retail vs the cost of the online sites.

I don't mind a fix up but again the risk is there for a serious hidden fault, fixable but it's the difference between making money and loosing it.

I have a mate who buys from auctions. WIth a good eye, and some hard won experience of what looks good and what doesn't, you can make a respectable living because the wins outweigh the losses.

For plant hire, buy new, hire out and be prepared to fix fuckups (backed up by watertight terms and conditions). You could do OK, but as others have said, it's a bit of a race to the bottom currently. Honestly, I'd say there's more money to be made as a repair guy. I thnk @wee_gus on here does this.

 

[AWilson]

I have a mate who buys from auctions. WIth a good eye, and some hard won experience of what looks good and what doesn't, you can make a respectable living because the wins outweigh the losses.

For plant hire, buy new, hire out and be prepared to fix fuckups (backed up by watertight terms and conditions). You could do OK, but as others have said, it's a bit of a race to the bottom currently. Honestly, I'd say there's more money to be made as a repair guy. I thnk @wee_gus on here does this.

Exactly bud the sales side of things is most likely to be my prime maker and the hire side is just a bit on the top if you get me.

I can repair them so no worries there and I have a guy who does hydraulics and would serve me well so no worries there again.

Guess I just need to bite the bullet and get myself to a few auctions.

Most machine asked about are 1.5t-8t up here and the bigger works are obviously 12t + but I don't have the capital for a 8t-12t machine currently.

Attachments seem to be readily bought and sold quite often as they are easy to cart so that's another thing I could sink my teeth in.

 

[AWilson]

Welcome.
I hate be dishearten anybody but the game you tread can be a hard start. I had a young lad start work for me a few years ago. He is a gent, lovely guy, hard worker, lots of contacts and in short was a fitter by trade and wanted to get into hire. I wasn't to fussed for hire but discussed used sales (its what we do) and he came on board with a view to do both. His contacts were from the rugby club where he played rugby as did his dad, friends, family and builders etc that knew him.

Its surprising how few times he asked if we could hire something out, perhaps he knew i would say no because all we seemed to get was the odd man wanting a digger for a weekend for £50, no insurance. Like i was going to send out a 6k asset for £50. I would rather sleep at night knowing its locked away and safe. All the contacts who said they would rent kind disapeered or the ones that did show interest were used to paying peanuts (civils etc) Then they get damaged, lost, stolen, buckets go walkies. Invoice delays and all that. Perhaps i am just making excuses because i just dont like the idea of it. I could also be totally wrong and maybe he had a lot more enquirers than i remember or maybe he just never asked.

With reference to buying and selling, there are zero auctions you can actively buy at and make enough to make a living, yes you can make a bit but believe you me. You can go to auction, look at 500 machines, earmark 10. For whatever reason they make way to much and you end up putting your arm up for something that looks cheap that you never paid attention too, then it turns up shagged. I am not saying its impossible but to actually make a go of it you need to buy differently. Buying from end users etc also isn't cheap but you can generally find they are honest so you know what your getting. The issue is its surprisingly difficult. I personally would think ringing people up trying to buy kit would be a doddle. Its not. Then you are liable for warranty's, comebacks, profit and loss, insurance, market changes and you need a good bit of stock to keep the flow right. A lot of people have also tried the middle man route (i did when i started) but I reckon everybody copied me that market is flooded too. I found again to make a living you had to invest in your own product.

What i have found and the only words of advise i can really give is that your people you would of thought would help you out, dont. Because they have existing relationships, sell direct and all that. Yes you will get a few but its not enough to pay yourself and trade.

enjoy.

Edit, also, i probably didn't explain auctions that well.. Its where most dealers send there crap. Including me. Its defo a eyes open affair,

Regy thankyou

Kinda looks like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, definitely not thinking easy money as what I do now is some severe graft but obviously the end game is having my own business. I'd setup on my own fitting but
again the end game for me is to try stop getting covered in oil every hour God sends

 

[AWilson]

You can defo do it, i started on my own in 2013, took on my own yard in 2014 and borrowed a shed load of ££ in 2016 because to really make a living you needed a good wedge. I personally would go subbie on fitting, which tbh is a bloody good wage. Buy a few bits where you can usually fitters get offered all the good stuff in the corners of yards, and do a bit of hire if you can.

Do you have a yard, have you considered the monthly costs of advertising. VAT and the like. No idea how many ££ you have but try it before you quit jobs and the like. You will need to be vat registered. book a day of and go to a auction, dont be put of buy how many people have seemingly millions of pounds to buy stuff. Buy stuff that sells well. not the things that dont, i.e dont buy a neuson digger for example, its hard sold. see how you go. You can make a good living at it, but you can also luck out, i ended up with some rough px machines in december and stuck them in euros. Thought i had bought them well, I lost 7k. I can tell you I have very little overheads and even after a great year no matter what after costs we are sub 5% margins before i take a wage.

Thanks again Regy

I have access to a few yards free of charge as I do alot of work for these lads.

Thankfully again I've got a few contacts for the usual business cards and I can advertise via social media. However the honest truth I don't know the best places to advertise via online, locally is easy enough to sort though.

I have a bit of capital to get started around the 20k mark as I'd rather buy a few smaller machines then luck out on a larger one. Kubota, Takuchi, Hyundai and JCB all these sell well up here. I don't see many more machines in that size of any different makes. 8t plus I see alot of variety

 

[AWilson]

Sounds good, don’t under value the lending of yardspace etc in the end you will probably need to weigh them in but stick to 1.5 tonne machines and take my word social media will frustrate you. With your budget you could get a couple of machines which is good. Budget for two Mascus adverts a month £100 for two and two eBay classified £25 I think plus vat. Facebook just brings a lot of plebs. Might be good for local hires?

Also there is never a bargain to be had anywhere imo. So laying out 20k I would say you will get 22k back minus costs. Maybe 23k. That’s the reality of plant sales

Solid advice, I'm pretty shocked at the very low margins though!

I have about 5-6 each for groundworks, civils, etc etc company's I work with that hire in machines alot but hate the larger company's cause they get stick for 'SITE DAMAGE' even though they do look after these machines Abit cheeky if I'm honest, they usually hire in from locals at a higher rate but usually a better maintained machine so these type of guys are probably my main hire target as the machines are operated by a competent persons and a guy that loves to take that extra 20mins in the morning greasing to escape work