Dirt math, do you use it?

[Keif]

Say a sloped garden(backyard) needs to be leveled.

Do you calculate the volumes to decide how much to take off high side and add to low side?

When quoting a job.

Do you calculate how much dirt needs to be moved/removed then use bucket volume/cycle time to determine how long it takes?

Just curious how other people work.

 

[diggerjones]

No. If its small back garden use experience and guess

 

[Shovelhands]

Wing it and make it up as you go along....

 

[Rob 210]

Wing it and make it up as you go along....

Good old fashioned guesstimate

 

[JD450A]

Dartboard

 

[hiluxman]

I find a calculator and 5 pints works out not too bad

 

[Shovelhands]

To be fair, if it’s a big job with large volumes then it needs some amount of calculations done.
Smaller projects, where things are generally harder to calculate, unless it’s a square hole on flat ground or something similar, then gut feeling and experience are going to be the biggest tools for working out a price.
But we’ve all slipped up in the past, and underestimated a job. I’m terrible for being over optimistic as to what can be achieved in a day! And every days a school day, so you’ve just got to learn from your mistakes.

Of course gaining the experience to just have a good guess is not easy, and can result a few fails before you get it right, but those fails will certainly focus the mind on getting it right next time.
@Keif , if you are unsure, or the job has many aspects that you can’t easily quantify, then maybe going in on a day rate basis would be best for both you and the customer. Some customers don’t want this, and some think that you are trying to con them, that happens I’m sure, but if you can agree a day rate and put in an honest days work and get the job done then you and the customer should be happy. And you gain the experience for next time without the risk of losing money.

 

[Steve]

Say a sloped garden(backyard) needs to be leveled.

Do you calculate the volumes to decide how much to take off high side and add to low side?

When quoting a job.

Do you calculate how much dirt needs to be moved/removed then use bucket volume/cycle time to determine how long it takes?

Just curious how other people work.

Don't forget to add a contingency for the unforeseeable.

 

[Keif]

I'm really just trying to be as efficient as possible. So far I've been using a combination of a laser level and guestimation. Just read a book and it had a big emphasis on maths. Not sure if the time spent measuring before digging is made back in moving the dirt less. Apps will do the volume calculations for the more difficult shapes, so there isn't much time in that.

 

[Brendan]

Laser level take heights at left and right at top and bottom maybe also middle. Then roughly guess an in-between number if levelling using ground that's there, if adding material if it's roughly a linear fall half the amount X2 for a rough estimate for fill material.

It's probably not right but does me well enough

 

[fred]

if its a job that you know can be measured in days from past experience then you will not be far out winging it, if you look at it and think weeks then its time to put a bit of effort into the math!

 

[Gunners]

Seriously, you guys wing it? Here we have a plant forum with supposedly some of the UK's top industry professionals (and some stragglers admittedly) and we turn up to a job and "guess" the muckaway....
It really doesn't take long to do a quick survey of the area with a laser. Measure a dozen points - generally the highest and lowest bits against a datum (usually a door threshold in small gardens) sketch on a drawing and compare these levels against the proposed ones. Then you can work out your rough volume, multiply by bulk factor and multiply by tons per m3 and you have it accurately. Always round up for good measure. This maths works for me, be it 2 loads away or 200, I'm always covered.

If its daywork you're doing however and the customer wants you to do more than just drive the machine, then thats fine as long as they are paying you what you charge for you and the machine for your brainpower. People talk about being cheap and or expensive when it comes to daywork. Well if you spend an hour of the day working out volumes of material needed or scanning for cables and locating services before you start digging, then you wont be costing the client in damaged services, and you're saving them money in wasted materials. They think you're really professional and you've earned an hours money with the digger and haven't used any diesel. Thats the best kind of hire!

 

[Shovelhands]

Seriously, you guys wing it? Here we have a plant forum with supposedly some of the UK's top industry professionals (and some stragglers admittedly) and we turn up to a job and "guess" the muckaway....
It really doesn't take long to do a quick survey of the area with a laser. Measure a dozen points - generally the highest and lowest bits against a datum (usually a door threshold in small gardens) sketch on a drawing and compare these levels against the proposed ones. Then you can work out your rough volume, multiply by bulk factor and multiply by tons per m3 and you have it accurately. Always round up for good measure. This maths works for me, be it 2 loads away or 200, I'm always covered.

If its daywork you're doing however and the customer wants you to do more than just drive the machine, then thats fine as long as they are paying you what you charge for you and the machine for your brainpower. People talk about being cheap and or expensive when it comes to daywork. Well if you spend an hour of the day working out volumes of material needed or scanning for cables and locating services before you start digging, then you wont be costing the client in damaged services, and you're saving them money in wasted materials. They think you're really professional and you've earned an hours money with the digger and haven't used any diesel. Thats the best kind of hire!

where is this forum, Ollie? Sounds like a place we could learn a thing or two!

 

[doobin]

Seriously, you guys wing it? Here we have a plant forum with supposedly some of the UK's top industry professionals (and some stragglers admittedly) and we turn up to a job and "guess" the muckaway....
It really doesn't take long to do a quick survey of the area with a laser. Measure a dozen points - generally the highest and lowest bits against a datum (usually a door threshold in small gardens) sketch on a drawing and compare these levels against the proposed ones. Then you can work out your rough volume, multiply by bulk factor and multiply by tons per m3 and you have it accurately. Always round up for good measure. This maths works for me, be it 2 loads away or 200, I'm always covered.

If its daywork you're doing however and the customer wants you to do more than just drive the machine, then thats fine as long as they are paying you what you charge for you and the machine for your brainpower. People talk about being cheap and or expensive when it comes to daywork. Well if you spend an hour of the day working out volumes of material needed or scanning for cables and locating services before you start digging, then you wont be costing the client in damaged services, and you're saving them money in wasted materials. They think you're really professional and you've earned an hours money with the digger and haven't used any diesel. Thats the best kind of hire!

That's great, only they don't. The number of time's I've done the muckaway calcs quickly via whatsapp for a 'client' and they've said 'thanks, we''re waiting on other quotes and will get back to you'

Cast not your peals before swine. Thats why I created this thread, where you can post pics of you taking it out on retards by obliging when they want stupid s**t done on day rate.

https://www.planttalk.co.uk/threads/jobs-you-don’t-give-a-s**t-about.1262/#post-33575

Joking aside, I have a similar business model to you, but it doesn't half take some sifting the chaff to find a decent customer for a digger hire. You'll never get paid on dayrate hire what your brainpower and experience are worth- thats what quotes are for IMHO. As such it's easier to use a different trading name for day rate hires, and if the cusomer turns out to be decent (rare) then convert them to a regular by going the extra mile. Otherwise, f**k em.

 

[Brendan]

Seriously, you guys wing it? Here we have a plant forum with supposedly some of the UK's top industry professionals (and some stragglers admittedly) and we turn up to a job and "guess" the muckaway....
It really doesn't take long to do a quick survey of the area with a laser. Measure a dozen points - generally the highest and lowest bits against a datum (usually a door threshold in small gardens) sketch on a drawing and compare these levels against the proposed ones. Then you can work out your rough volume, multiply by bulk factor and multiply by tons per m3 and you have it accurately. Always round up for good measure. This maths works for me, be it 2 loads away or 200, I'm always covered.

If its daywork you're doing however and the customer wants you to do more than just drive the machine, then thats fine as long as they are paying you what you charge for you and the machine for your brainpower. People talk about being cheap and or expensive when it comes to daywork. Well if you spend an hour of the day working out volumes of material needed or scanning for cables and locating services before you start digging, then you wont be costing the client in damaged services, and you're saving them money in wasted materials. They think you're really professional and you've earned an hours money with the digger and haven't used any diesel. Thats the best kind of hire!

For muckaway or excavation calcs I've always just gone off the m3 amount and divide by...
3 for 6 yard skip
4 for 8 yard skip
7 for grab wagon
Always been bang on for the amount I've needed to dig on jobs although you will get 8m3 on a grab I prefer to air on the side of caution for them

 

[Keif]

Did some math for prepping a slap in a sloping backyard. Had to use the eraser a few times. Lol. Yard drops 11" over 30ft.

 

[Quattromike]

Did some math for prepping a slap in a sloping backyard. Had to use the eraser a few times. Lol. Yard drops 11" over 30ft.

View attachment 16167

The concrete floor in one of my sheds slopes 900mm over 24M used to be a silage pit in a previous life

 

[V8Druid]

The concrete floor in one of my sheds slopes 900mm over 24M used to be a silage pit in a previous life

know the feeling ...... my old workshop floor although a lovely floor sloped an inch in 6 feet, or might've been eight? across it's width to let the water run out, which came off the buses when parked in there wet .. either from wash off or rain ....... old bus garage originally

 

[Shovelhands]

I did a large building prep earlier this year, the customer thought he’d have to have a sloping floor, due to the lay of the land so to speak, and actually wanted it sloping as he said their other building sloped and it was fine! I convinced him we could do it level and after speaking to one of his guys, he confirmed what I thought, that a sloping floor was a pain in the arse! So we put it in plumb level
sloping floors have their place, as Gra just said about the old bus garage, makes sense, but unless it’s a very special application then level is best imo.

 

[Keif]

Sorry about the confusion. The math earlier in the thread was for the amount of fill dirt needed to raise/level the area. The concrete pad is going to be level.

Here is a new one I mapped out/calculated to fill a low spot in a neighbor's yard.