Micro True Spider Digger on Ebay UK

O

Old Operator

Well-known member
Hi - Saw this mini spider for sale - unusual in the UK, looks like a very late Powerfab unit (they finished in '95)
Located Oswestry Shrops, A couple of caveats though - it has swamp pads rather than 'dry land' feet - indicating it has been used in boggy wet ground, has the slew ring been under water? It would have a 10 port rotary union - not cheap if needing replacement. Could be a start for anyone wishing to get into this area? I would have been interested myself but the job I wanted one for evaporated, my 93 yr old dad takes more of my time now, & I am deeply into restoring another mini machine - more on this soon in the classic section.
There is a guy who rebuilds Powerfab rotary unions & can get new Italian Slew rings for them, based Suffolk. Anyone viewing the the machine I suggest lifting it up on feet & wheels, lifting arm off ground & going for lunch or longer. If all working it should not slump down. I do wonder why it is being sold if still good? I would guess lighter than 2t even with a glazed cab
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk 🐾
I was keen when it was firsts first up for auction at 2 with a staunch "no but it nows".... However it would appear removing and relisting is the way to go when you aren't getting bids 🤭
 
Lancs Lad

Lancs Lad

Well-known member
I was keen when it was firsts first up for auction at 2 with a staunch "no but it nows".... However it would appear removing and relisting is the way to go when you aren't getting bids 🤭
Helpfull mates and a round of the finest usually helps
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
having looked at the link ......... if that's the machine i think it is I fitted the cab to it .... was BWW and spent most of its time on a dredge barge .... with the long dipper on it ...... it was frightening on a flat concrete yard ... been in the canal on its side twice that I know of when it was on the Mon & Brec ... in a few weeks ... blokes eventually refused to operate it.
when I fitted the cab I said it needed doors both sides .. otherwise you'd have to make sure you put it on its side the right way up :LOL: IIRC H&S eventually banned 'em from using it ........ it was a bloody horrible thing to operate or move about ...... some where I have some paper pix of it in the yard and on the barge that was specially built for it ..... was a complete white elephant .. sat in my yard for 18 months waiting for someone to decide how they wanted it modified / altered to make it usable .... eventually got shipped off the the midlands, without ever being touched
 
O

Old Operator

Well-known member
To be fair to Powerfab - the original concept was never to put it on a barge, it is a land machine. Richard Smalley made a much better barge machine with sort of roller stabilizers. I dread to think what this was like on a floating pontoon! I have operated the Kamo Junior Spider over in Italy years ago - a sort of improved Smalley 5. The downside of spiders is that if a hose fails earlier ones could tip over - later they had check valves on the leg rams & double seals within the rams. I did though realise that most soils in the UK (rain & frost effects) naturally stabilise at about 1 in 3, anything steeper is basically rock with a bit of soil clinging - seen in N. Wales etc - so cannot be dug without a hammer.
Graham on here runs a couple of spiders but travels countrywide for work. They are a bit of an acquired taste to drive. The junior did not have powered wheels - just walked around & they locked against rotation when in tough digging. Small spiders are rare, when Batemag was trading it was thought the Italian market for a 1 tonne or less machine was about 1 per year. The fact that this thing has been under water makes it a 'project' machine - rather than one that could be put to use. I am already working on a project, so no thanks!! have made & tacked up the Gopher kingpost - to prove I have it's geometry right. (passed with flying coulors) Hope to fully weld up next week (heat permitting). Also machine large thrust washer for under the post.
Druid did you ever meet Powerfab's David John? - he was their designer & had been involved in development work for Hymac before this.
 
Grahams

Grahams

Don't complain - suggest what's better
To be fair to Powerfab - the original concept was never to put it on a barge, it is a land machine. Richard Smalley made a much better barge machine with sort of roller stabilizers. I dread to think what this was like on a floating pontoon! I have operated the Kamo Junior Spider over in Italy years ago - a sort of improved Smalley 5. The downside of spiders is that if a hose fails earlier ones could tip over - later they had check valves on the leg rams & double seals within the rams. I did though realise that most soils in the UK (rain & frost effects) naturally stabilise at about 1 in 3, anything steeper is basically rock with a bit of soil clinging - seen in N. Wales etc - so cannot be dug without a hammer.
Graham on here runs a couple of spiders but travels countrywide for work. They are a bit of an acquired taste to drive. The junior did not have powered wheels - just walked around & they locked against rotation when in tough digging. Small spiders are rare, when Batemag was trading it was thought the Italian market for a 1 tonne or less machine was about 1 per year. The fact that this thing has been under water makes it a 'project' machine - rather than one that could be put to use. I am already working on a project, so no thanks!! have made & tacked up the Gopher kingpost - to prove I have it's geometry right. (passed with flying coulors) Hope to fully weld up next week (heat permitting). Also machine large thrust washer for under the post.
Druid did you ever meet Powerfab's David John? - he was their designer & had been involved in development work for Hymac before this.
If they didn't have check valves and the way hoses used to go a lot more often back in the day it could be interesting.
Also if you are bumping yourself round with the bucket you do have to be pretty carefull or it is easy enough to lay one on its side. I nearly had mine over last winter. I was climbing over a sleeper wall sideways. Only about 600 high, but not strong enough to put the wheels or bucket on. The bucket slipped away from me on some ice just as I had started lifting a leg. Luckily it was only about 300 up when it happened, so machine fell without rolling over or hitting the wall. Woke me up a bit!
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
To be fair to Powerfab - the original concept was never to put it on a barge, it is a land machine. Richard Smalley made a much better barge machine with sort of roller stabilizers. I dread to think what this was like on a floating pontoon! I have operated the Kamo Junior Spider over in Italy years ago - a sort of improved Smalley 5. The downside of spiders is that if a hose fails earlier ones could tip over - later they had check valves on the leg rams & double seals within the rams. I did though realise that most soils in the UK (rain & frost effects) naturally stabilise at about 1 in 3, anything steeper is basically rock with a bit of soil clinging - seen in N. Wales etc - so cannot be dug without a hammer.
Graham on here runs a couple of spiders but travels countrywide for work. They are a bit of an acquired taste to drive. The junior did not have powered wheels - just walked around & they locked against rotation when in tough digging. Small spiders are rare, when Batemag was trading it was thought the Italian market for a 1 tonne or less machine was about 1 per year. The fact that this thing has been under water makes it a 'project' machine - rather than one that could be put to use. I am already working on a project, so no thanks!! have made & tacked up the Gopher kingpost - to prove I have it's geometry right. (passed with flying coulors) Hope to fully weld up next week (heat permitting). Also machine large thrust washer for under the post.
Druid did you ever meet Powerfab's David John? - he was their designer & had been involved in development work for Hymac before this.
the name does ring a bell, but it's a great many years since I was last at their place

this wasn't a permanent fixture on the barge .. wheels dropped into pockets in the deck and IIRC the third one hanging out the stern .... was intended to be able to 'climb' on/off onto the bank and trek along the tow path or off side and be used from 'terra firma' also ...... but it was a nightmare-ish top heavy beast, even on flat good going and as said frequently ended up getting wet, or swimming ... i will have to get up in the attic and find my boxes of work photos .. pretty sure i had a pic of it in position on't barge
 
O

Old Operator

Well-known member
Thanks, it later crossed my mind that adding a glazed cab to such a small machine only made it all the more top heavy. Also it has a chassis mounted 'motorisation castor' that in effect makes it a 'tricycle' when motoring along (Perhaps inspired by the Poclain TY45?) On some other makes these castors mounted on the dipper in place of the bucket. - this meant fewer hoses through the union & steering accomplished by slewing a little. The Powerfab early castor had no inbuilt fail safe brake, & could 'run away' in some circumstances. I think the castor only adds to operating difficulties on one of these. It may have had it's place on the flat land 360W they did. More practical was a slot in 'site towbar' meaning the machine could be towed at low speeds by a tractor or dumper on flat land. Batemag told me that for every spider there were about 1000 tracked 360's made. An offshoot company used to fully rebuild the older simpler Kamo Junior & 3X machines for about 10, 000 Euro.
I never tried to walk the Kamo over an obstacle, I did quite a bit of sidehill trenching with it though. I had driven a Smalley 5 before, the Smalley could not so easily work sidehill as the Kamo could.
There was later a 'Menzi Master 515' - this took a different approach - having adjustable gauge track frames & an engine that would not seize in any plane up to the max slope it was designed for, a low profile boom & dipper with extendahoe. This could handle slopes (less than a spider) but could still do conventional work efficiently. I did look into making a mini version of this from a French Kit & selected an engine good for up to 25 deg in all planes. They suggested a permanently wide gauge (though they were perfecting expanding tracks.) The difficulty came in that they had no brakes beyond the oil trapped behind a ram type spool. I looked into adding these from Lossi, but it meant modified travel spools for them to operate.

I gave it all up - My dad is 93, lives in two rooms of a rambling old place set in half an acre of steeply sloping garden with hedges on top of tall retaining walls. He no longer drives & never had the internet. My wife has been ill several times - at the moment a trapped leg nerve. This means the allotment also totally fell to me. She does not drive, neither does her son. Add to this providing winter wood to two stoves.
Good point I have a little 'brick arch' workshop with 16A welding socket there & no too near neighbours to annoy with noise / welding interference. All this is why I am not on here as often as I used to be

I am though still working on the 5 star Gopher, got teeth cut on a gear blank I turned to get the big old lathe going in low range again. This allowed me to bore 3'' holes in 20mm thick plate. With help from an owner in France got measurements for a kingpost that was missing, made a wooden mock up to prove these were OK. Transferred all this to metal, tacked up to further prove the geometry. There was a 'crescent moon' wear groove in the fixed chassis turntable, we decided it better to build this back up rather than disturb the chassis structure. This I have done using the 'bead pad' technique taught on welding courses. I removed the engine's ignition system to be on the safe side before this. Also a stud had been ripped out of the fan cowl during it scraping against a low branch I was told. Made a repair plate for this & got it mig tacked in, drilled & tapped same. All back together & engine running with a clone pull start now covering the dangerous open starter wheel. Need E7018 root runs to fully weld the kingpost - R Tech inverter should arrive tomorrow for this. Druid you may remember me asking about this vs. an Oxford old oil cooled unit. Also you kindly directed me to Mig Welding Forum, they have been a great help, there are some pics of the lathe repair job on there! Went for the Inverter as the current needed to run the Oxford meant a 32A socket. Am told the inverter will turn down low enough to even run 1.6 rods if ever needed

BTW David John designed a tiny machine called the Powerfab 007 - this was toward the end of the company, It was re hashed by his son Nathan, not a bad machine BUT it is jittery in the slew area because of direct drive. The best version was built by Essex blacksmith Dan Tester, he used a gear reduction in the slew. It was on Youtube but has sadly disappeared
 
O

Old Operator

Well-known member
Graham, forgot to say we painted the end of each leg on the Kamo a different coulor. Then painted the spool handle controlling that leg the same coulor. (It had rows of levers - piano style control) This meant there was no doubt if you say wished the green leg to go down you pressed the green lever. Thus there was no mix ups no matter how the machine was facing on its slew ring. Helped me a lot. Also I used to think of it as a 3 legged stool with wheels to rear & bucket out front - to adjust the plane of the slew ring you altered the wheel leg heights until happy, then dropped the front legs to conform to the ground as they found it. This helped when turning from downhill to side hill. I doubt I ever truly mastered all it could have done. It had a roll over bar rather than any cab. Some had a pin adjustable lengthening dipper, this one was fixed.
It was needed to press down off to the side to relieve weight on that wheel, the pin might go in (done from floor) or the wheel might need to be hand rotated slightly to lock it. Best done by an assistant to save time. Progress slow compared to a track machine, but could work without building & recovering benches (it did less damage to nature)
 
O

Old Operator

Well-known member
It hit me that the auction Powerfab has it's legs in the 'half out' position & says heat needed to withdraw the rusted in pin on one! This points to it being like this over time. Maybe to fit on the barge. If so this is even more why it seems unusable even on the flat & difficult to travel. When working the legs should form a square. Pity it has been under water as anyone buying could only really guarantee the fabrications. Hyd tank could be rusty in base & send this round system. Likewise the little Kubota engine
 
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