A proper Pickup!

[Monkeybusiness]

But peoples driving skills and the damage a bigger vehicle can do haven't changed. It's an unfortunate crossroads.

Yes and no - an old series 2 or 3 Landy could/can tow 3.5 tonnes 50 years ago and also today. It is also legally allowed to travel at 70mph on a motorway.
There isn’t a modern vehicle on the road that wouldn’t be safer working within those parameters, whoever was behind the wheel.

 

[bobthebuilder]

went out with a mate yesterday on a landrover driving day ,range rover evoke weighing in at 3 ton

 

[Smiffy]

Yes and no - an old series 2 or 3 Landy could/can tow 3.5 tonnes 50 years ago and also today. It is also legally allowed to travel at 70mph on a motorway.
There isn’t a modern vehicle on the road that wouldn’t be safer working within those parameters, whoever was behind the wheel.

But 3.5t behind a S3 Land rover is in reality terrifying draws your attention and only the most ridiculous drivers will do much more than crawl along. A 2.8 Hilux or even more so a discovery will drag 3.5t at terrifying speeds whilst sitting in a lovely comfy little bubble, which just entices you to push it. And whilst the cars have got smoother and more powerful, the braking hasn't improved at quite the same rate and the trailer brakes are still the same.
Not to mention our roads haven't grown. In fact they have got more crowded.

 

[hiluxman]

Getting an o licence isn't that hard, especially a restricted, as that's what most of you would fall into.

Tacho, again nothing to worry about as you ain't sat behind a steering wheel all day.

I put it off for years, based on all the hearsay, I wish I'd done the process years and years ago.

Inspections aren't expensive, if you use independents.

 

[Brendan]

Getting an o licence isn't that hard, especially a restricted, as that's what most of you would fall into.

Tacho, again nothing to worry about as you ain't sat behind a steering wheel all day.

I put it off for years, based on all the hearsay, I wish I'd done the process years and years ago.

Inspections aren't expensive, if you use independents.

I don't have a yard, so not just the associated costs or getting the o license, would need to find a yard or somewhere local with a space. Not sure how it would work in that situation

 

[hiluxman]

I don't have a yard, so not just the associated costs or getting the o license, would need to find a yard or somewhere local with a space. Not sure how it would work in that situation

My mate has his 7.5t truck at home on an o licence. Had the tc out and they agreed to give it based on the truck not been out before 7 am and 6pm, basically no night time operations and he lives on a school route too.

 

[Furniss]

It's easier here but mates who run a truck on restricted in uk say they don't what all the fuss is about.
Mate recently gone from 7.5t to 12t.
Although having had 7.5t it's a funny size with limited payload - 12/13t is prob a sweetspot.

 

[Smiffy]

It's easier here but mates who run a truck on restricted in uk say they don't what all the fuss is about.
Mate recently gone from 7.5t to 12t.
Although having had 7.5t it's a funny size with limited payload - 12/13t is prob a sweetspot.

12/,13t are barely noticeably larger or less maneuverable than 7.5t. in fact with the the advent of the 7.2t iveco daily and the 7.5t Isuzu, the traditional 7.5t lorry should be extinct. Especially as the amount of people running on pre 97 licenses are diminishing.

 

[V8Druid]

well that dates that anecdote!

Glory days eh?

early 80,s when I ran that particular Landy

 

[V8Druid]

But peoples driving skills and the damage a bigger vehicle can do haven't changed. It's an unfortunate crossroads.

I think they have - for the worse ... you used to have to 'drive' a car/vehicle ... today's vehicles you just sit there and press the loud pedal and it goes (usually rapidly) ... and usually stops equally well .. a lot of the skill in getting the best from them/what you had, has diminished
IIRC an SD's recommended tow cap. was 1.9t .. have happily towed 3t+ with several, without incident or issue

 

[groundworker]

Getting an o licence isn't that hard, especially a restricted, as that's what most of you would fall into.

Tacho, again nothing to worry about as you ain't sat behind a steering wheel all day.

I put it off for years, based on all the hearsay, I wish I'd done the process years and years ago.

Inspections aren't expensive, if you use independents.

I can imagine it's not that difficult but why should a one man band who wants to pick up a bulk bag have to go through all that to stay legal?

 

[Quattromike]

It's easier here but mates who run a truck on restricted in uk say they don't what all the fuss is about.
Mate recently gone from 7.5t to 12t.
Although having had 7.5t it's a funny size with limited payload - 12/13t is prob a sweetspot.

Our old atego 7.5 tonner had a 7.6M bed on her triple dropside which was handy for lengths of steel but she weighed in at 5.5t which only left 2t for payload. Not much more then the 3.5t pickup at the time. But the length was handy and she would handle 4 ton no bother and didn’t look loaded

 

[Furniss]

13t hookloader truck with a smaller 5tonner would be a mint setup for domestic work and run absolute rings round a pickup 3t digger outfit, imho well worth the hoops.

 

[JD450A]

The whole issue with the debate is the question of when given a larger vehicle will the user still overload it?

Reality is lorries don't tend to be overloaded. The occasional scaffold lorry, or extremes like vehicles shifting STGO weights without permits and bulk goods (tippers) where actually the weights can be unknown.

Would Joe overload his 10t tipper when he is allowed to use it? I doubt it. For one we are talking builders, landscapers and the like who are needing say 3t of gear for a job.... There is a threshold where picking it up yourself locally is unviable and it tends to be around the 10t mark. Hence why I say 13t over 7.5t, 13t allows around 7t payload with the right body.
Secondly you take zero tolerance to a whole new level. One warning, logged on the system for Straps/Sheet/Overloading.... the warning lasts 12 months but if your stopped within that period it's bye bye vienna to you running a lorry without O License. Plus you loose your HGV entitlement. - Vehicle condition shouldn't come into that.... Just double up the MOT testing to 6 monthly.....
I'm not a fan of bigger trailers or pickups. Yank trucks don't work in most parts of the UK as they are cumbersome and oversized..... likewise a 16' trailer is a twat without adding weight or length.

But lorries..... Back lorries.

 

[Furniss]

Our 7.5t got overloaded all the time but we were looking to be independent with the plant Haulage so that contributed to it being replaced, the 19t merc has 5m body that is perfectly matched, once it's full, muck or aggs it's always about the 10t mark which is it'd payload.
Seems to be a real resistance from the pickup users to take the plunge into a truck, but ive never heard anyone saying that they would go back, or that the restricted o license etc is too much hassle, once they have actually done it that is.

 

[Lancs Lad]

The whole issue with the debate is the question of when given a larger vehicle will the user still overload it?

Reality is lorries don't tend to be overloaded. The occasional scaffold lorry, or extremes like vehicles shifting STGO weights without permits and bulk goods (tippers) where actually the weights can be unknown.

Would Joe overload his 10t tipper when he is allowed to use it? I doubt it. For one we are talking builders, landscapers and the like who are needing say 3t of gear for a job.... There is a threshold where picking it up yourself locally is unviable and it tends to be around the 10t mark. Hence why I say 13t over 7.5t, 13t allows around 7t payload with the right body.
Secondly you take zero tolerance to a whole new level. One warning, logged on the system for Straps/Sheet/Overloading.... the warning lasts 12 months but if your stopped within that period it's bye bye vienna to you running a lorry without O License. Plus you loose your HGV entitlement. - Vehicle condition shouldn't come into that.... Just double up the MOT testing to 6 monthly.....
I'm not a fan of bigger trailers or pickups. Yank trucks don't work in most parts of the UK as they are cumbersome and oversized..... likewise a 16' trailer is a twat without adding weight or length.

But lorries..... Back lorries.

Bang on about zero tolerance.
Trouble is ATM there's virtually no deterrent to running bent ...some of the fines and penalty's that are handed out are pathetic and Joe just cracks on again after.
That's...if they even get stopped. Seen caravan movers which blatantly taking the rip and their shitty escort people carriers cruising merrily on the M6. Chances of been tugged are little over zero.
Notice in the states they are pretty wary of running over weight and their scales don't mess about.

And for accuracy the pickup that started this thread that's not a yank pickup it's a ranger that's plated correctly

 

[Smiffy]

Bang on about zero tolerance.
Trouble is ATM there's virtually no deterrent to running bent ...some of the fines and penalty's that are handed out are pathetic and Joe just cracks on again after.
That's...if they even get stopped. Seen caravan movers which blatantly taking the rip and their shitty escort people carriers cruising merrily on the M6. Chances of been tugged are little over zero.
Notice in the states they are pretty wary of running over weight and their scales don't mess about.

And for accuracy the pickup that started this thread that's not a yank pickup it's a ranger that's plated correctly

double edged sword though as the more the more they police the more our freedom is eroded (sorry to sound like a trump supporter) and honest mistakes get lumped in with it all. The policing system seems to be very bad at differentiating between intentional and repeated law breaking and a one of mistake.
Not to mention that all it will do is financially affect the legitimate business people. The blaggers will move on to something else and just leave a legacy of s**t for everyone else to deal with.
I definitely think this is a case of being careful what you wish for.

 

[Simon edwards]

I think unfortunately the reality is that instead of overloaded 3.5t vans we will just end up with overloaded 7.5t lorries. All the ones pushing it will just push it in a bigger vehicle. If it was police able then we wouldn't have bent lorry firms. The only benefit is an overloaded 7.5t is alot more capable of stopping than an overloaded van

The whole issue with the debate is the question of when given a larger vehicle will the user still overload it?

Reality is lorries don't tend to be overloaded. The occasional scaffold lorry, or extremes like vehicles shifting STGO weights without permits and bulk goods (tippers) where actually the weights can be unknown.

Would Joe overload his 10t tipper when he is allowed to use it? I doubt it. For one we are talking builders, landscapers and the like who are needing say 3t of gear for a job.... There is a threshold where picking it up yourself locally is unviable and it tends to be around the 10t mark. Hence why I say 13t over 7.5t, 13t allows around 7t payload with the right body.
Secondly you take zero tolerance to a whole new level. One warning, logged on the system for Straps/Sheet/Overloading.... the warning lasts 12 months but if your stopped within that period it's bye bye vienna to you running a lorry without O License. Plus you loose your HGV entitlement. - Vehicle condition shouldn't come into that.... Just double up the MOT testing to 6 monthly.....
I'm not a fan of bigger trailers or pickups. Yank trucks don't work in most parts of the UK as they are cumbersome and oversized..... likewise a 16' trailer is a twat without adding weight or length.

But lorries..... Back lorries.

I think Rory has it bang on, the issue is not so much the majority of people overloading a vehicle with adequate payload in the first place, I think the majority of us would just like to be able to move what we currently do on trailers without reluctantly regularly being overweight.
A solution like this would be perfect.

 

[doobin]

I think Rory has it bang on, the issue is not so much the majority of people overloading a vehicle with adequate payload in the first place, I think the majority of us would just like to be able to move what we currently do on trailers without reluctantly regularly being overweight.
A solution like this would be perfect.

You say that, but then then in a few years the 2.7t digger class would be replaced by 4.7t or whatever, and people will still be going on about whether they should chance loading it with the tilty on or make another trip for buckets.

It wouldn't be overly complex to fit a vehicle with scales on the axles, then there's no excuse. I'd take that as a trade off for being allowed to run 12t no o license.

 

[pettsy]

Seen caravan movers which blatantly taking the rip and their shitty escort people carriers cruising merrily on the M6. Chances of been tugged are little over zero.

Not sure if it was actually recently or just recycled posts, but seemed there were quite a few pulled recently for no movement orders or travelling during “embargo” periods.