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AHPP
Well-known member
V8Druid. Are you the guy on here whose dad was a traffic copper?
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
utter bollox .... you are not advocating free trade on a level playing field
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AHPP
Well-known member
What's the imbalance in the playing field? And answer the question about your dad.
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
I am .... but I fail to see what bearing that has?
what's more we also have a member who is ex-30 year traffic too
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
if you can not see the imbalance that is being discussed, you obviously don't want to ..... as for the answer .. it's above -- wasn't aware we are 'on the clock'
Quattromike
Well member-known
Surely the road safety issue creates victims, if you are unfortunate enough to loose a family member because some traccy user is undercutting an hgv haulier with a 20ton digger behind his John Deere and looses control on road and causes a death then surely that's an imbalance
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AHPP
Well-known member
I knew. I just wanted you to say it for the audience. Perhaps it was your upbringing that made you so fiercely in favour of all these rules and so fiercely entitled to think you should be able to interrogate people going about their day. Or perhaps it was something else.
Do you follow all the rules about everything? Do you believe the rulemakers know better than you about everything?
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
most 'traccy plant' trailers are overweight with even a 13 tonner on board, let alone some of the ridiculously larger m/c.s . as for loss ... if a haulier is forced out of business by some traccy haulier 'running bent' that too is a loss in many ways
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
can't be many on here that don't ... I still fail to see the relevance. I would question just why you seem to be so in favour of those breaking the rules, to the detriment of everyone else, whom they are illegitimately competing against. I am "fiercely " against their blatant flaunting of the 'rules' that make competing for a living 'even'.
as for "interogating" a suspected law breaker ... those who have nothing to fear/hide, should not object ... as said " thou protesteth too much " are you one of the type under discussion ??
Quattromike
Well member-known
I've done it, I've run a tractor to move stuff fully aware that it's not right but done it to get ahead and was prepared for the consequence. The problem comes when some do it and don't think they are doing wrong, they think they can justify it not only to themselves but justify it to other to
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AHPP
Well-known member
Humour me and think outside the paradigm for a moment. It's only 'breaking the rules' and 'illegitimate' because the aforementioned Westminster ***** say it is. These people are only baddies because the Whatever Regulations 1999 say they are. In the absence of that construct, they're just people digging holes and moving soil, like you.
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
no .... they are people who endeavour to circumvent the societal rules, whom 99.9% abide by, for their own personal gain at a significant cost to others. Why not advocate anarchy, if you extrapolate this to the ultimate conclusion.
None of us like the Westminster ***** .. they have gone well beyond their remits ...... but if you applaud the minority who are just doing WTF they like, it's a very slippery slope. I doubt very much you would be so enthused, if as Mike suggested above, you were to lose a family member to some traccy driver, illegally hauling a m/c., or a dump full of crud, that he had no right, or legitimate purpose to be doing so, would you still be advocating freedom to do WTF you like and sod the rest ???
these people are selfish, greedy and irresponsible
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AHPP
Well-known member
What's the cost to others?
I'd be annoyed by anyone driving something they can't handle, tractor, lorry, Renault Clio or bicycle. But if you can handle it, I wouldn't want you to be forced to pay to drive it just because some others can't. It wouldn't be fair on you.
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
if you can not see the imbalance that is being discussed, you obviously don't want to ....
one can only assume from your stance that you very likely are
the obvious cost to others is that legitimate operators are unfairly competing against the do WTF they like-ers, to the detriment of their legitimate, law abiding, business (and those assigned with enforcing the rules don't seem to GAF. )
the issue of competency hasn't even been mentioned and is a whole other topic which also raises a great many issues.
you've lost me with your final comment.
Big Jordy
Well-known member
Can I just throw something in about the lorry tractor debate.. in the south of Ireland it’s fully legal to run a tractor trailer set up carrying plant/materials/muck away for builders etc running on rebated fuel, no o licence requirements at all either. And both haulage and tractor brigade run side by side. Tractors must be tested for commercial use as well as certain types of trailer and must conform to commercial rules eg weights dimensions, the south can run at 46ton legally no paperwork required as long as whatever tractor you use is plated for it no bother work away
www.rsa.ie
And yes fully aware it says agricultural but tractors can be and are used for haulage of diggers etc
Honestly I personally prefer the south’s rules on our industry it’s seems a bit more thought out and practical.
Just saying that alot of other countries use tractors legally and in line with competition, as said on here before they have their place and time where a wagon won’t fit or is more hassle to use eg access or something similar.
Personally I’m all for making life easier and not having to jump through numerous hoops made up by some office based twat that hasn’t ever come into the real world and tried doing the jobs we all do.
Vehicle standards for agricultural vehicles
Important standards for agricultural vehicles such as tractors and low loaders.
www.rsa.ie
Honestly I personally prefer the south’s rules on our industry it’s seems a bit more thought out and practical.
Just saying that alot of other countries use tractors legally and in line with competition, as said on here before they have their place and time where a wagon won’t fit or is more hassle to use eg access or something similar.
Personally I’m all for making life easier and not having to jump through numerous hoops made up by some office based twat that hasn’t ever come into the real world and tried doing the jobs we all do.
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Smiffy
Well-known member
When I was a teenager I worked I was a tractor driver. I spent the summers on harvest and the like and the winter dragging bales around. I've moved diggers with tractors and run dump trailers. I have many friends who where in the same job. Then at some point I did my HGV license. And moved to the construction industry. I have driven tractors with low loaders towing diggers and dump trailers as well as lorries doing the same job.
Having done it both ways and now also being older and slightly more mature I feel I'm in a good place to comment. I don't actually care about the red diesel or no more or anything like that. It honestly doesn't bother me. But from my own personal experience tractors on the road are nowhere near as safe. And I know a lot of people who have transitioned from tractors to lorries who agree. I thought driving tractors was great until the first time I moved a 13t machine on a lorry and had a dawning realisation of how c*** tractors are on the road. There stopping and cornering ability are dire and they are a handful just to keep in a straight line by comparison to a lorry. Now fair enough if this only affects the driver but these have genuine consequences to other road users.
What's more the kit we have in this country is really poorly designed. All our trailers have the axles really far back imposing to much drawbar weight and allowing the trailer to bully the tractor in corners. A dolly or turntable behind a tractor tows so much better and is far safer but they are difficult to reverse so unpopular. They all still run ag tyres which are wollowy in comparison to the proper tyres the use for road haulage in Europe. And the weights and speeds are to much especially when coupled to the poor condition of our roads.
There is a local farm that moves an 8t machine round behind a tw25. They do about about 15-20mph the tw has a compressor fitted to run air brakes on the trailer which is an ex drag balanced unit so the weight is better distributed. This is very different to a few local groundworks firms moving 13tonners with fastracks at 40mph. I really have no problem with people bending the rules tbh. It's when the safety of others comes in to play I dislike it.
Tbh I think tractors should be banned from the road with anything other than an implement and transfer trailers should be used at harvest to fill lorries. Would also reduce the mess on the roads.
Having done it both ways and now also being older and slightly more mature I feel I'm in a good place to comment. I don't actually care about the red diesel or no more or anything like that. It honestly doesn't bother me. But from my own personal experience tractors on the road are nowhere near as safe. And I know a lot of people who have transitioned from tractors to lorries who agree. I thought driving tractors was great until the first time I moved a 13t machine on a lorry and had a dawning realisation of how c*** tractors are on the road. There stopping and cornering ability are dire and they are a handful just to keep in a straight line by comparison to a lorry. Now fair enough if this only affects the driver but these have genuine consequences to other road users.
What's more the kit we have in this country is really poorly designed. All our trailers have the axles really far back imposing to much drawbar weight and allowing the trailer to bully the tractor in corners. A dolly or turntable behind a tractor tows so much better and is far safer but they are difficult to reverse so unpopular. They all still run ag tyres which are wollowy in comparison to the proper tyres the use for road haulage in Europe. And the weights and speeds are to much especially when coupled to the poor condition of our roads.
There is a local farm that moves an 8t machine round behind a tw25. They do about about 15-20mph the tw has a compressor fitted to run air brakes on the trailer which is an ex drag balanced unit so the weight is better distributed. This is very different to a few local groundworks firms moving 13tonners with fastracks at 40mph. I really have no problem with people bending the rules tbh. It's when the safety of others comes in to play I dislike it.
Tbh I think tractors should be banned from the road with anything other than an implement and transfer trailers should be used at harvest to fill lorries. Would also reduce the mess on the roads.
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DaveDCB
Well-known member
I once sat in on my mates big JD with triple axle low loader on fully loaded… sitting in the passenger seat was vomit inducing!
Anyway my popcorn has run out.
Anyway my popcorn has run out.
Lancs Lad
Well-known member
Bri963
Well-known member
No, while they’re just running bent, they’re rogues trying to get ahead. When they have an accident because they’re running with bald/half flat tyres, overloaded, not secured, no lights, load hanging over one side, dropping s**t on the road, bouncing Across the white line because they can’t keep the front wheels down (all seen round here in the last three or four years) they’re a menace. Often a menace exploiting kids who are all too keen to play Billy Big Balls and who don’t realise they’ll take the drop big time when it goes wrong.
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