Wagon

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Smiffy

Well-known member
As long as you are more than 10hp per tonne you will make good enough progress. More gears makes for a better experience but for less than an hours drive it won't be a problem atall
 
Furniss

Furniss

Well-known member
Most 18t here are 220 to 250 bhp with 6 speed boxes. You do see the odd 300bhp usually with 8 speed 4over4 box but very rare.

Is the merc your looking at an 8 speed all across box?
Haven't been to see it yet ... but apparently it's "eps" which is semi auto I believe?
 
Furniss

Furniss

Well-known member
As long as you are more than 10hp per tonne you will make good enough progress. More gears makes for a better experience but for less than an hours drive it won't be a problem atall
I thought the 10 bhp per ton rule was for tractors - which obviously have the advantage of going slow and not for wagon.
 
S

Smiffy

Well-known member
I thought the 10 bhp per ton rule was for tractors - which obviously have the advantage of going slow and not for wagon.

I think alot of tractors run well below that.
Arctic's at 44t here are still mostly 440-450hp.
Tipper firms seem to go for bigger engines so they can drive like nutters but most lorry's over here arnt far out from 10hp per ton unless owner operators
 
Mogman

Mogman

What man as done, man can do, what never has,maybe
I think alot of tractors run well below that.
Arctic's at 44t here are still mostly 440-450hp.
Tipper firms seem to go for bigger engines so they can drive like nutters but most lorry's over here arnt far out from 10hp per ton unless owner operators
Yea I run at 44 ton but with 620 hp💪💪 you can never have enough power😉

When I first started driving artics I had a 265 hp foden pulling 38 tonnes😢 you knew you was loaded then going up birdlip😳

as for tipper they are pulling out of quarries so a bit more umph will be welcome
 
Left hooker

Left hooker

Well-known member
Tippers, mixers and hook/skip wagons generally are run max weight or empty where super market artics never will be full even when loaded so no need for high power unlike tippers and the like plus the need to go off road often with slopes and soft ground sapping power
 
S

Smiffy

Well-known member
Tippers, mixers and hook/skip wagons generally are run max weight or empty where super market artics never will be full even when loaded so no need for high power unlike tippers and the like plus the need to go off road often with slopes and soft ground sapping power

But what I never understand is it seems rare to have anything other than an 4 over 4 gearbox in them. If the drivers learnt to drive a splitter then they wouldn't need so much HP.
More gears is equally as important as more HP. And a smaller engine with more gears is better to drive on hills than a bigger engine with less gears.
 
Left hooker

Left hooker

Well-known member
But what I never understand is it seems rare to have anything other than an 4 over 4 gearbox in them. If the drivers learnt to drive a splitter then they wouldn't need so much HP.
More gears is equally as important as more HP. And a smaller engine with more gears is better to drive on hills than a bigger engine with less gears.
More to go wrong plus if steep hard going fully loaded on a hill your not wanting to change gear for fear of missing and starting from scratch on a hill just hold it in the gear
Splitter more for road I would say
 
S

Smiffy

Well-known member
More to go wrong plus if steep hard going fully loaded on a hill your not wanting to change gear for fear of missing and starting from scratch on a hill just hold it in the gear
Splitter more for road I would say

But if it's a long pull it makes a huge difference. You end up howling the nuts of the engine or sat stupidly slow when a half gear means you keep pulling at a sensible speed. No reason to miss a gear if your used to the gearbox. And there's more chance of mucking up changing on the H pattern than the half gear as to change the half you only drop the clutch, no messing with levers.
All the off-road trucks when I worked in NZ where 4 over 4 with a split and twin speed creeper gear and they never had a problem. And what they doing would make any climb out a UK quarry look pathetic.
Even scanias over there had 4 over 4 with a split and they arnt even available over here.
I think they used an Eaton gearbox.
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk
Splitters went the way of the Foden.... Yes there great for those that want them, but the majority of the time it's a overcomplicated wank system that adds more to go wrong and is vulnerable to abuse from drivers.

4/4 is more than ample for most UK work..... Stick a big engine in front and you'll even piss Lowloader work...... If you don't need a double drive with hub reduction, you don't need a splitter.

Most wagons are automatic now..... I'm not a fan but can see the attraction.
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk
So "eps" Rory can you enlighten me ?

I
From memory it's electronic buggery that you preselect the next gear before dropping the clutch and letting it "majgik"

Bit like marmite. I've not run one in proper anger so I can't inform you much more than that.
 
hiluxman

hiluxman

Well-known member
From memory it's electronic buggery that you preselect the next gear before dropping the clutch and letting it "majgik"

Bit like marmite. I've not run one in proper anger so I can't inform you much more than that.
Yeah that's roughly right from what I've seen of them. Though not driven one.

I recently bought an old auto daf with an allison box and must say I like it. The garb is just a streight 6sp zf box. I think I'd either go fully auto or manual the semi autos seem alot more messing for what they are.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
have had splitters and three-range Roadranger boxes in cranes and always pulling max weights - liked both ...
splitter was good on hills as you always had a half cog, if you couldn't quite make it in what you were in ....
the 3/5/5 Roadrangers were lovely boxes and the ratios were always damned near perfect, but were a 'heavy'/long travel stick ... but when you knew 'em were, as I said - lovely ... with 45+t of 8 leg Grove and a mere 290 donkeys they were a perfect match (in their day) ..... only once did I ever think I was gonna run out of cogs, but was some ****ing hill and was in bottom crawler as I crested the top .... never ask a milkman for directions :rolleyes::oops::oops::oops:
 
Bucket on wheels

Bucket on wheels

Well-known member
have had splitters and three-range Roadranger boxes in cranes and always pulling max weights - liked both ...
splitter was good on hills as you always had a half cog, if you couldn't quite make it in what you were in ....
the 3/5/5 Roadrangers were lovely boxes and the ratios were always damned near perfect, but were a 'heavy'/long travel stick ... but when you knew 'em were, as I said - lovely ... with 45+t of 8 leg Grove and a mere 290 donkeys they were a perfect match (in their day) ..... only once did I ever think I was gonna run out of cogs, but was some ****ing hill and was in bottom crawler as I crested the top .... never ask a milkman for directions :rolleyes::oops::oops::oops:
🤣🤣🤣🤣😖
 
Furniss

Furniss

Well-known member
Couple I've seen of interest

Merc axor 1829nl 2012 225,000kms
Renault premium 280 2009 170,000kms

Both same money - reconditioned with new 14t hookloader gear - both carry about 9.5t with a skip on.

Both 4.1m wheelbase

Unfortunately neither seem to have exhaust brake or equivalent..... is that a must ?

Merc versus Renault ?

Screenshot_20220112-225732_Yahoo Mail.jpg

Screenshot_20220117-180437_Yahoo Mail.jpg
 
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S

Smiffy

Well-known member
Couple I've seen of interest

Merc axor 1829nl 2012 225,000kms
Renault premium 280 2009 170,000kms

Both same money - reconditioned with new 14t hookloader gear - both carry about 9.5t with a skip on.

Unfortunately neither seem to have exhaust brake or equivalent..... is that a must ?

Merc versus Renault ?

View attachment 31400
View attachment 31401

Exhausts brakes arnt a must on local roads they are nice but not a necessity. But have you checked most modern lorries I've driven will either automatically apply the exhaust brake when you let of the accelerator or when you gently touch the break pedal.
I think only daf have a separate control for it now.
Also if they arnt used often enough you use then and they get stuck on which is a pig when you want to get home
 
Furniss

Furniss

Well-known member
Exhausts brakes arnt a must on local roads they are nice but not a necessity. But have you checked most modern lorries I've driven will either automatically apply the exhaust brake when you let of the accelerator or when you gently touch the break pedal.
I think only daf have a separate control for it now.
Also if they arnt used often enough you use then and they get stuck on which is a pig when you want to get home
Yes the daf I drove the other day had the brake on a stick - with 3 stages - worked well tbf as didn't need to brake much at all when you got the knack.
I will check see if they have automatic versions.
Unfortunately they are 6.5hrs away so a bit of a pita to nip and view.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Russel's Scania, under his Liebherr has a hydraulic retarder in the gear box, works much like a Telma, with variable levels on a stick, plus an exhauster ...
hardly ever touches the brakes and the retarder is quite remarkable when it really gets 'applied' (y) :cool:
 
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