skip truck over pick up

Antony Holmes

Antony Holmes

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#1
Hi guys i am not shore if this is the right place but i am confidant that i am not the only one looking to make more money out of our mini diggers

i am looking at a 6 ton roro skip lorry to replace my d-max my thinking is be able to
  • take materials to the job type 1,gravel ect
  • more carrying capacity 3300kg net
  • remove some materials top soil or hard core all of witch go to the tip at the moment with skips or grab lorry
  • this is the type of thing i had in mind room carry tools in the box

  • 1534879620521.png
  • What extra costs do i need to be thing about
  • thanks for your help
 
JD450A

JD450A

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#2
6 ton (actually anything over 3.5t) puts you into O license. Which requires a accessible 3K + at any time, about £1000 in application fees/notices etc a Yard which is suitable to run out of and IF you are carrying goods for others also requires more money and a CPC accredited transport manager.

Then you will need to operate a inspection routine every 4-13 weeks, most likely featuring a outside engineering firm/HGV workshop.

It's a ball ache, not worth it at all for a 6t lorry, think larger to be worthwhile, 7.5t minimum for a tipper (payload still crap at 3.5t) or 13t for a skip/hooklift wagon.

We have run a skiploader (was 13t, now 15t) for 3 years now. Very successful and profitable if you get it right and fall into place. If you don't have the contacts for tipping then don't bother and as a one man band it's questionably legal/possible.... you quickly run out of legal working hours which effectively means you have less time to earn money.

I'd advise against it and instead suggest buying a good 3.5t tipper wagon (Cabstar, Izuzu or Iveco/Ford) payload is crap at about 1.5t, but tbh that hooklift is likely only to carry two tons and it's upkeep will cost a fkn bomb.

I will also say that IMHO chainlift skips are better suited for the small time operator. More on site flexibility, can take two/three in one hit on a lorry depending on the waste type, plus with a machine 5t or bigger you can shift the skips on site easily.
 

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Antony Holmes

Antony Holmes

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71
#3
6 ton (actually anything over 3.5t) puts you into O license. Which requires a accessible 3K + at any time, about £1000 in application fees/notices etc a Yard which is suitable to run out of and IF you are carrying goods for others also requires more money and a CPC accredited transport manager.

Then you will need to operate a inspection routine every 4-13 weeks, most likely featuring a outside engineering firm/HGV workshop.

It's a ball ache, not worth it at all for a 6t lorry, think larger to be worthwhile, 7.5t minimum for a tipper (payload still crap at 3.5t) or 13t for a skip/hooklift wagon.

We have run a skiploader (was 13t, now 15t) for 3 years now. Very successful and profitable if you get it right and fall into place. If you don't have the contacts for tipping then don't bother and as a one man band it's questionably legal/possible.... you quickly run out of legal working hours which effectively means you have less time to earn money.

I'd advise against it and instead suggest buying a good 3.5t tipper wagon (Cabstar, Izuzu or Iveco/Ford) payload is crap at about 1.5t, but tbh that hooklift is likely only to carry two tons and it's upkeep will cost a fkn bomb.

I will also say that IMHO chainlift skips are better suited for the small time operator. More on site flexibility, can take two/three in one hit on a lorry depending on the waste type, plus with a machine 5t or bigger you can shift the skips on site easily.
Thanks for your detailed reply, as you say i may well be a lot of stress for now much gain especially as i dont want to do skip hire, i only wanted to use it my own price work.
once again thanks for you time
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

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#4
I’d go, as Rory suggested, for a 3.5t truck. Cabstar is my preference, we get on well with them, they are 7t train weight, put a good 3.5t tipper trailer behind it, we use Ifor but obviously others available, and you will carry nearly as much as a 7.5t wagon, and much more than that 6t hooklift. At a fraction of the hassle......
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
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#5
I’d go, as Rory suggested, for a 3.5t truck. Cabstar is my preference, we get on well with them, they are 7t train weight, put a good 3.5t tipper trailer behind it, we use Ifor but obviously others available, and you will carry nearly as much as a 7.5t wagon, and much more than that 6t hooklift. At a fraction of the hassle......
Assuming they have a license for a trailer James :rolleyes: .... not everyone's as old as us :p and passed their test pre -'97 :confused:
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

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#6
Assuming they have a license for a trailer James :rolleyes: .... not everyone's as old as us :p and passed their test pre -'97 :confused:
Yes, your right, I sort of take that bit for granted.......

Even after taking a trailer test though, it would be more economical, as the test is a one off cost.

Go steady on who your calling old! I only just scraped through before 97.......:D:p
 
TiltyShaun

TiltyShaun

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#7
Rory talks a load of sense!!
I stopped running an 18ton Beaver tail as I down sized to a towable digger. Not miss the inspection routine and tachograph rules at all!!
I went for iveco and trailer to tow digger. I will be honest as I have thought about getting a skip loader, the reality is I can earn enough sat in the digger and as I don't want to employ anyone adding another sit that requires a bum doesn't make sense for me!!
 
JD450A

JD450A

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#8
One final note that I remembered this morning.

Whenever you get a call for the lorry..... you will have other work to do elsewhere, and vice versa. Far better off finding another mug that wants to run a lorry and giving them enough work to prioritise you.
 

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V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
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#9
Yes, your right, I sort of take that bit for granted.......

Even after taking a trailer test though, it would be more economical, as the test is a one off cost.

Go steady on who your calling old! I only just scraped through before 97.......:D:p
LOL ..... '75 when I did mine :) ..... had had a HGV for 20 years in '97 :rolleyes: :oops::(
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
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#11
Nearly got yours on Grandfather's rights, Druid. :LOL:. Got mine in'82.
I did Bri .... had it at 19 .... one of about 200 issued in '77 :)...... fulfilled all the criteria to qualify other than the age, but they made a couple of hundred exceptions ... ;) me being one ... had been driving 12t TKs for a couple of years before the 'new' HGV categories came in .... IIRC had to do an hour's drive with an examiner :unsure:..... was a long time ago and the memory's not what it was :rolleyes:
 
Left hooker

Left hooker

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#12
Rory talks a load of sense!!
I stopped running an 18ton Beaver tail as I down sized to a towable digger. Not miss the inspection routine and tachograph rules at all!!
I went for iveco and trailer to tow digger. I will be honest as I have thought about getting a skip loader, the reality is I can earn enough sat in the digger and as I don't want to employ anyone adding another sit that requires a bum doesn't make sense for me!!
towing for reward or hire requires tacho fitted in any size vehicle
 
TiltyShaun

TiltyShaun

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#15
As long as you don't charge separately for transportation
You are also correct. But as it is Friday and I finished early and have already had a beer.......I am now thinking.....are you sure. I have an exemption due to the trailer weight which exempts me from an operators licence. The taco exemption is as the digger driver the delivery is incidental as it is not my main employment. To be honest, I do not charge a delivery charge but I will reread the rules after the bank holiday when sober!
 
Mogman

Mogman

What man as done, man can do, what never has,maybe
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#16
But as it is Friday and I finished early and have already had a beer.......I will reread the rules after the bank holiday when sober!
Good lord Shaun you started drinking Friday but will sober up by Tuesday:eek:that’s some bendero_O
 
B

Brendan

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#17
Pretty sure if you charge for transportation it's hire and reward so tacho required although might be wrong on that but like everything it's how someone else interprets it. All trailers under 1t unladen weight are exempt from o license rules
 
M

Monkeybusiness

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#18
If you drive yourself and your machine etc to the job, do the job, then drive back it is exempt. However, if you drive your machine to the job, drive back to base to collect another machine etc and then return to the job you are getting into tachograph territory apparently, as you are working as a delivery driver.
A mate is a fencer and he went to collect a new tracked post knocker from the manufacturers in the U.K. (for his own sole use in his sole trader business). He was towing it behind his Isuzu Dmax and got pulled (it looks overweight but was/is actually legal) on his way home. They did him for no tacho as it was essentially haulage - it seems a bit harsh to me but the laws around tachos are pretty convoluted.
 
TiltyShaun

TiltyShaun

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#19
There is also a distance that you have to be within. Sine one will correct me if this is wrong, but 100km radius from base. I would say that if you are stopped you need to know the rules. I am sure the exemption is if you are going to drive the machine, if he admitted that he was just taking it back to base then I would say that technically they are correct.
 
JD450A

JD450A

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#20
All boils down to whether you are stupid enough to bend over and receive punishment, or whether your brave enough to push it to court.

Was told several years ago at a DVSA "seminar" that IF I was stopped at the roadside and didn't agree with the opinions of the DVSA man it is essential to PUSH it to court.

Most will come under this EXEMPTION.
"Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes that are used for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the driver’s use in the course of their work and which are used only within a 100 km radius from the base of the undertaking and on the condition that driving the vehicle does not constitute the driver’s main activity.
This would apply to tradesmen such as electricians or builders carrying tools or materials for their own use."

Some of us will also come under this
"
Vehicles used in connection with sewerage, flood protection, water, gas and electricity maintenance services, road maintenance or control, door-to-door household refuse collection or disposal, telegraph or telephone services, radio or television broadcasting and the detection of radio or television transmitters or receivers.
There have been a number of significant court rulings from the European Court of Justice and British courts dealing with this exemption. Common themes have included a direct and close involvement in the exempt activity; the principle of a general service in the public interest; and the limited and secondary nature of the transport activity.
It’s DVSA’s view that vehicles used in connection with sewerage, flood protection, water, gas and electricity services must be involved in the maintenance of an existing service (rather than the construction of a new service) to claim the concession.
For vehicles used in connection with sewerage maintenance services the term “maintenance” also applies to the removal of waste from a system but only where the waste is removed directly onto the vehicle and immediately taken away for treatment. This would also include transporting partially treated sewage from satellite sites to main sites.
The derogation doesn’t apply to the movement of sewage sludge which has been treated to make a product which is then used for another purpose such as, for example, fertiliser.
The types of refuse collection and disposal operations likely to be exempt are:
  • the door-to-door collection or from communal waste points of domestic waste such as black bin bags, green waste, garden waste, newspapers or glass from households
  • the collection of sofas and household appliances from households within a local area
  • the clearing of a home following a bereavement, provided refuse collection and disposal is the core purpose
The derogation will also apply to the collection of the domestic type waste from commercial premises but would not extend to collecting commercial waste, for example, waste generated by a manufacturing process.
Vehicles used in connection with road maintenance services which:
  • are engaged on a journey directly relating to the maintenance services, for example, removing rubble or other materials or
  • are being used directly on the maintenance activity, for example, laying tarmac
These will fall within this derogation however journeys to a site for the purpose of positioning the vehicle in readiness for engaging in the maintenance activity or for returning to base after the maintenance activity has ended will not fall within this derogation.
Vehicles which are to be used or have been used that same day in connection with highway maintenance and control and don’t travel far from the site where the work of highway maintenance is being carried out will fall within the derogation."

Personally I would have no qualms driving a pickup and trailer to Scotland and doing a Tour De Vosa on the return leg.... it is not a for profit journey and regardless of whether it is business use or not driving the pickup isn't earning money or my regular work..... take it to court and show that.

Regarding charging transport.... to my experience that is a Myth.... we charge transport on everything. The key issue is what the driver of the vehicle then does.
Example - I drive to site with digger on trailer within 100km radius, arrive and unload digger, go to merchants for pipe and materials then return to site to use the machine and the materials, at the end of the day I load digger on trailer and return home - I DO NOT NEED A TACHO as Driving the Pickup is incidental to the job I am doing (Laying pipe etc)

Example - Me and Bob drive to site with digger on trailer within 100km radius, arrive and unload digger, Bob gets to work whilst I go to merchants for pipe and materials then return to site to Help Bob, at the end of the day I load digger on trailer and return home (Bob is told to piss off and get the bus because he's upset me) - I NEED A TACHO as It could be perceived that helping Bob on site is incidental to my main task of driving the pickup and trailer on fetch and carry. In DVSA's eyes this would come under EU Rules.

Too many people bend over and take the bollocks.
 
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