Radio controlled hydraulics

M

Monkeybusiness

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#1
I have a PTO wood chipper that is currently set up for hand feeding (so has manually controlled stop bar etc) but is primarily fed by a digger. I want to set it up for exclusive machine feeding, and keep any operatives away from it altogether when it is in use. I subsequently need to set it up for radio-controlled operation (so the functions can be operated from the digger),and would like to throw this out to the collective wisdom on here for advice if possible!
There are essentially 2 separate non-related functions to be controlled.
Firstly, the hydraulic feed rollers. These have 3 positions - stop (ie dump to tank, which is what I want the default to be),feed in, and feed out. Feed in would need to be latched, reverse could be momentary (ie actioned just when commanded, but latching would be preferable). The rollers’ hydraulic feed is also controlled by an existing ‘no stress’ system that dumps oil to tank when the flywheel revs drop below a certain speed - this is fed from a 12v supply from the tractor and is to be retained as-is. The feed roller circuit runs at 2500 psi and approx 80l/min (slightly less flow than that in reality),through 1/2 inch hoses.
The secondary function to be controlled is a top roller lift ram - this also has 3 functions. Default is float, with the ability to either lift or to crush. These are momentary controls only. This circuit is fed from the same pimp as the rollers but runs at 900 psi through a relief valve in the current control spool.
I spoke to Approved Hydraulics and they recommend setting up using the following

4 Button Apollo Radio Remote System with button 1 and 2 latched

Combined with

Single Bank 80L 1/2" Solenoid Valves
£171 Each.

As said, I’d like the hydraulics to default to dump-to-tank when not receiving an instruction from the radio control unit. I’d also like to fit 3x stop switches to the machine to over-ride the RC inputs.

I raised a concern that the latched input would essentially be constantly transmitting in order for the rollers to feed, and have been assured that the transmitter batteries should be good to last for a couple of weeks at a time when operated this way.

Am I under/over thinking this at all - is this a pretty straightforward bit of plumbing or is there anything obvious I’ve not considered/could do more effectively?

Cheers for any thoughts you guys may have!
 
S

Smiffy

Active member
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#2
Just one thing having run a very big jenz is its usefull to have a run in reverse on the feed rollers so when something gets wedged you can give it a proper wiggle to get it out otherwise you have to try and press the button whilst trying to think what your doing and use everything

I wouldnt worry about batteries the jenz lasted 6 months of daily use and it had a lot of fuctions
 
Quattromike

Quattromike

Active member
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161
#3
I've done a bit with hydraulics but never the radio controlled or remote setup so would be interesting to hear how you get on with this
 
M

Monkeybusiness

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#4
I’ve been chasing and chasing Approved Hydraulics to give me a price so I can buy the kit from them - I’ve spoken to the main guy on the phone twice this week and sent multiple emails but can I buggery get anywhere with them. They recommended the kit I listed earlier to me last year and I want to buy/install it next week if possible, but I’m about ready to give up on them.
Does anybody know any other similar suppliers I could try?!...
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
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#5
I have a PTO wood chipper that is currently set up for hand feeding (so has manually controlled stop bar etc) but is primarily fed by a digger. I want to set it up for exclusive machine feeding, and keep any operatives away from it altogether when it is in use. I subsequently need to set it up for radio-controlled operation (so the functions can be operated from the digger),and would like to throw this out to the collective wisdom on here for advice if possible!
There are essentially 2 separate non-related functions to be controlled.
Firstly, the hydraulic feed rollers. These have 3 positions - stop (ie dump to tank, which is what I want the default to be),feed in, and feed out. Feed in would need to be latched, reverse could be momentary (ie actioned just when commanded, but latching would be preferable). The rollers’ hydraulic feed is also controlled by an existing ‘no stress’ system that dumps oil to tank when the flywheel revs drop below a certain speed - this is fed from a 12v supply from the tractor and is to be retained as-is. The feed roller circuit runs at 2500 psi and approx 80l/min (slightly less flow than that in reality),through 1/2 inch hoses.
The secondary function to be controlled is a top roller lift ram - this also has 3 functions. Default is float, with the ability to either lift or to crush. These are momentary controls only. This circuit is fed from the same pimp as the rollers but runs at 900 psi through a relief valve in the current control spool.
I spoke to Approved Hydraulics and they recommend setting up using the following

4 Button Apollo Radio Remote System with button 1 and 2 latched

Combined with

Single Bank 80L 1/2" Solenoid Valves
£171 Each.

As said, I’d like the hydraulics to default to dump-to-tank when not receiving an instruction from the radio control unit. I’d also like to fit 3x stop switches to the machine to over-ride the RC inputs.

I raised a concern that the latched input would essentially be constantly transmitting in order for the rollers to feed, and have been assured that the transmitter batteries should be good to last for a couple of weeks at a time when operated this way.

Am I under/over thinking this at all - is this a pretty straightforward bit of plumbing or is there anything obvious I’ve not considered/could do more effectively?

Cheers for any thoughts you guys may have!


Having looked at the Apollo website I can now see what you're about ....

couple of Cetop3 double acting solenoid valves.....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flowfit-...f79d8a31:m:mx0Xj8dnZe7Wl09Da_251Aw:rk:25:pf:0

on a manifold block
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flowfit-...6701vQyOK76vu9wz_0Xg:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true

one of these ....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-12Ch...trol-Transmitter-Receiver-315MHz/281469507499

or these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F21-E1-1...ontrol-Wireless-Radio-Controller/262856020190

to control the Cetop3,s

and some lock out stops ....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Red-Mush...h=item1eecc9c782:g:3pcAAOSw8MZbwd5u:rk:6:pf:0

with press to break circuit providing earth/-ve side for the Cetop3's coils, so with the lock outs locked out the solenoids won't work, no matter what commands they're given by the remote system. ;)

the cetops will be cheaper on Flowfit's own website www.Flowfitonline.com .... but I've not been able to get into it from 'old faithful' or a couple of weeks now ... summat to do with 'Chrome' at a guess, but not fathomed it yet

those radio remotes are ying tong, but'd probably do you .... the first one has built in latching, so'd not be transmitting all the time - it's programmed in initially, on set up
T'other might have the function but if not .....
there's these ..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bistable-Latching-DPDT-8A-Power-Relay-Module-DC24V-Coil/161062075492
or these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5v-12v-2...OjtWO_5VZ843iolIqa6A:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true
and loads of others
remote'd be .... press once for on .. again for off (y)

If I've got what you're about right .. that lot ought to sort your problem ........ with a bit of judicious leccy spaghetti 'knitting':giggle:
looks like an interesting challenge (y)
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Active member
Likes
116
#6
Having looked at the Apollo website I can now see what you're about ....

couple of Cetop3 double acting solenoid valves.....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flowfit-...f79d8a31:m:mx0Xj8dnZe7Wl09Da_251Aw:rk:25:pf:0

on a manifold block
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flowfit-...6701vQyOK76vu9wz_0Xg:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true

one of these ....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-12Ch...trol-Transmitter-Receiver-315MHz/281469507499

or these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F21-E1-1...ontrol-Wireless-Radio-Controller/262856020190

to control the Cetop3,s

and some lock out stops ....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Red-Mush...h=item1eecc9c782:g:3pcAAOSw8MZbwd5u:rk:6:pf:0

with press to break circuit providing earth/-ve side for the Cetop3's coils, so with the lock outs locked out the solenoids won't work, no matter what commands they're given by the remote system. ;)

the cetops will be cheaper on Flowfit's own website www.Flowfitonline.com .... but I've not been able to get into it from 'old faithful' or a couple of weeks now ... summat to do with 'Chrome' at a guess, but not fathomed it yet

those radio remotes are ying tong, but'd probably do you .... the first one has built in latching, so'd not be transmitting all the time - it's programmed in initially, on set up
T'other might have the function but if not .....
there's these ..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bistable-Latching-DPDT-8A-Power-Relay-Module-DC24V-Coil/161062075492
or these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5v-12v-2...OjtWO_5VZ843iolIqa6A:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true
and loads of others
remote'd be .... press once for on .. again for off (y)

If I've got what you're about right .. that lot ought to sort your problem ........ with a bit of judicious leccy spaghetti 'knitting':giggle:
looks like an interesting challenge (y)
Loving your work Mr Druid sir - I’ll get on with it!!!
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
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#7
Loving your work Mr Druid sir - I’ll get on with it!!!
I'm pretty sure you'll need a 3C60 configuration on the cetops .... but it might also be 3C3 ? to get stuff to float :confused::unsure: ..... regrettably I've never had anyone explain the nuances of Hyd. circuit dia.s to me.
it's all been self taught/learnt and have never managed to find a definitive guide to the various symbols :(

also ... found these guys doing the cetops and manifolds too .... slightly cheaper than FF :giggle: and ali manifolds (y)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/hydrapro...tem=252186630034&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

those wireless remotes - the first ones, seem real handy items .... second one's are more suited to an overhead crane type installation I think .... but'd still do the job
been meaning to get one of the first type for all me outside lights .... be well handy, middle of the night, from a bedroom window, to see WTF to shoot at, if I hear anything/one prowling about :giggle::giggle:
Also cheap enough to have a spare sat, in case ;)


Cetop3 configurations
1548524803606.png
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
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#11
tha's only single acting valve though Aiden:unsure::confused:
MB wants dual directional and float in centre - i.e. open centre which I think my second choice of 3C3 will give ??? [for the crush roller] .... 3C60 should give him the continuous dump to tank when not performing a function ?? [feed rollers] ..... Where's @Mogman tonight ??? :rolleyes:
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Active member
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116
#12
Right then chaps - the fella at Flowfit has recommended the following for the hydraulic control aspect of what I want to achieve (to allow the lift ram to float etc). Does it make any sense to you hydraulic gurus?!...

1x CETOP 5 3 STATION STEEL MANIFO -LD M32X1.5 RV CAVITY

1x M32X1.5 PITCH R/V 20-200BAR 120LPM MAX TO SUIT MD-05P

1x CETOP 5 S/SOL ALL PORTS OPEN 12VDC

2x CETOP 5 SOLENOID OPERATED DIRECTIONAL CONTROL VALVE

1x FLOW-FIT HYDRAULIC CETOP 5 NG10 MODULAR REDUCING VALVE 35-140
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Likes
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#13
Right then chaps - the fella at Flowfit has recommended the following for the hydraulic control aspect of what I want to achieve (to allow the lift ram to float etc). Does it make any sense to you hydraulic gurus?!...

1x CETOP 5 3 STATION STEEL MANIFO -LD M32X1.5 RV CAVITY

1x M32X1.5 PITCH R/V 20-200BAR 120LPM MAX TO SUIT MD-05P

1x CETOP 5 S/SOL ALL PORTS OPEN 12VDC

2x CETOP 5 SOLENOID OPERATED DIRECTIONAL CONTROL VALVE

1x FLOW-FIT HYDRAULIC CETOP 5 NG10 MODULAR REDUCING VALVE 35-140
as already stated ... I am no guru :rolleyes:, but ......
surprised he's saying cetop 5s with 120l/m flows .... the 3s give 80l/min and 1/2" ports IIRC ... the fives are bloody dear in comparison - twice the price :eek: as are all the other bits too :( ....... and they're all big lumps :oops:
can't see why he's saying 3 station manifold either .... you're only controlling two functions ... RV is no bad thing in the manifold ... in case ;)
what the hell is the single acting solenoid valve going to control?:confused: :unsure::unsure: ... it's fip/flop .. either / or :confused:
I take it the configuration codes for the dual acting valves are as suggested ?:unsure:
as the reducer works in either direction, bolted between the manifold and the cetop, it'll give you the ability to reduce only the one circuit in both directions (y)
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Active member
Likes
116
#14
Yeah, I’m not sure why the big cetops, unless they provide additional function over and above the smaller ones?

The guy seemed to know his stuff (but that’s compared to me, who doesn’t!). He was adamant that the float function wasn’t possible with a straightforward 2 way cetop - what he proposed (and these parts combine somehow to deliver) was a third valve that allows the float somehow (working in combination with a 2-way cetop and whatever else he has proposed here). But he did lose me in his description of how it would work, which is why I thought I’d list them here to see if they make any sense to anyone else?!
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
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#15
Yeah, I’m not sure why the big cetops, unless they provide additional function over and above the smaller ones?

The guy seemed to know his stuff (but that’s compared to me, who doesn’t!). He was adamant that the float function wasn’t possible with a straightforward 2 way cetop - what he proposed (and these parts combine somehow to deliver) was a third valve that allows the float somehow (working in combination with a 2-way cetop and whatever else he has proposed here). But he did lose me in his description of how it would work, which is why I thought I’d list them here to see if they make any sense to anyone else?!
nah.... just greater flow rate .... IIRC 1" or 1-1/4" ports :oops:

can't see how a single acting flip/flop is going to give you a float ..... single acting feeds either port A or port B, when energised ... continuously, especially off a common manifold ?? :unsure: ... no centre function [whether open or closed or whatever diversion] :rolleyes: on a single actor:(
Aidens 2B4B would be the closest I could see to making it float, ..... I think, but P'd either be up or down continuously, when energised ??
flowfit's guy is advocating 2B3B ?????:confused:

what codes for the double acting ones did he suggest MB
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Active member
Likes
116
#16
nah.... just greater flow rate .... IIRC 1" or 1-1/4" ports :oops:

can't see how a single acting flip/flop is going to give you a float ..... single acting feeds either port A or port B, when energised ... continuously, especially off a common manifold ?? :unsure: ... no centre function [whether open or closed or whatever diversion] :rolleyes: on a single actor:(
Aidens 2B4B would be the closest I could see to making it float, ..... I think, but P'd either be up or down continuously, when energised ??
flowfit's guy is advocating 2B3B ?????:confused:

what codes for the double acting ones did he suggest MB
I don’t know - what I’ve posted here is all the info he provided. No mention of codes. I’ll enquire further today!
 
G

Grifferr

New member
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13
#17
Would float be achieved with a valve across the two pipes. Valve closed you have crush and lift valve open float?
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Active member
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#19
Now then...

The third single acting cetop is an unloader valve that runs to tank when energised.

The manifold has a common p line, and the central condition is all ports open.

The double acting cetops have p blocked, and a and b are linked to tank. Apparently they will float when not energised.

The larger cetop system has been proposed as the pressure reducer (needed for the ram circuit) won’t handle more than 50l/min on the size down, and I’ve got more like 80l/min flow here. I’m already having issues with overheated oil (an oil cooler is also on the list) so larger everything will hopefully help with that too.

I just hope it works!!!
 
FleetEng

FleetEng

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#20
Something to consider is back pressure on the tank line. I have a 4 port 3 position valve on a pressure testing rig for hydraulic cylinder that opens A&B to tank in the center position , I have trouble with the cylinder creeping out due to the back pressure on the tank line ( the HPU is around 10m from the valve block)