Help, I’ve entered the tiltrotator minefield!

GazCro

GazCro

Well-known member
About reliability I'm not trying to push you to a brand here i just saw it the other day and it does i think answer you're question. Mind when you consider as a rough rule full fat setup is getting towards 1/3 cost of machine it's on it's how it should be
Screenshot_20210105-220658_Instagram.jpg
 
CPS

CPS

Well-known member
I was gonna post this before you replied but you can confirm other than engcons dc2 everybody else's control system is Svab is it not (or their own branded version of it)?
No, Rototilt ICS is completely their own system designed in-house. The only SVAB part are the joysticks, which pretty much have become an industry standard.... in Scandinavia anyway.

Interesting note.... Rototilt and I'm pretty sure Engcon (Robert may confirm this) have stopped supplying their tiltys to be able to run on SVAB. If you want proportional control its either ICS or DC2.

I think one of the reasons for this is that in Scandinavia SVAB was widely used, if there was a problem you had 2 parties to deal with as such... control system said it tiltys fault..... tilty says its control system fault etc..
 
L

Lazy Driver

New member
We in the similar boat and thinking off a tilty for farm and forestry as a lot off fiddly work coming up
but can you reverse mount a bucket on an Scandinavian S60 as a face shovel with out the tilty as lot off our work is dung spreading
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk
ck hitch mounted, as we do at times do a fair bit of deep trenching and us a breaker (probably what’s worn out our cu
We in the similar boat and thinking off a tilty for farm and forestry as a lot off fiddly work coming up
but can you reverse mount a bucket on an Scandinavian S60 as a face shovel with out the tilty as lot off our work is dung spreading
Yes, although I don't think you can with EC Oil or similar.
 
CPS

CPS

Well-known member
We in the similar boat and thinking off a tilty for farm and forestry as a lot off fiddly work coming up
but can you reverse mount a bucket on an Scandinavian S60 as a face shovel with out the tilty as lot off our work is dung spreading
Yes, although I don't think you can with EC Oil or similar.
You can yes👍 thats actually what the S stands for.. "Symmetrical"
You also can with Oilquick, EC oil etc. But you have to be careful with hydraulic attachments as if they are picked up the wrong way you will wreck them... not a huge problem with oil quick type brackets as they can't be connected up the wrong way, I'm not so sure about EC oil though
 
L

Lazy Driver

New member
You can yes👍 thats actually what the S stands for.. "Symmetrical"
You also can with Oilquick, EC oil etc. But you have to be careful with hydraulic attachments as if they are picked up the wrong way you will wreck them... not a huge problem with oil quick type brackets as they can't be connected up the wrong way, I'm not so sure about EC oil though
thats handy to know that as i was worried that oil quick ec oil etc would get in the way if trying it with a bucket
 
Wsquire

Wsquire

New member
Thank you all for your advice and insight into these things so far! Already answered a lot of questions and I’m sure there will be more if we go down this route!
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
Thank you all for your advice and insight into these things so far! Already answered a lot of questions and I’m sure there will be more if we go down this route!
I really cant recommend enough finding someone doing similar work with a similar sized machine and asking them how they are getting on with it. So many applications for an excavator these days and one setup doesn't suit all.
People are generally willing to chat about their kit. They have been where you are now and know the answers to the same questions you are asking yourself! Don't rush into anything, do your research and you will get the right setup for your business.
 
Furniss

Furniss

Well-known member
That's fine. But both items need to create more money.

That's why my 8t tilt hitch went..... £5 a hour difference to supply it and do a lot of stuff quicker and better..... But they don't want to pay for it. So they don't get it.

The 1.5t Hitch strangely people will pay for.
Thats seems an odd decision if its already on the end .. I would keep it to simply make my own life easier and price work more efficient 🤷‍♂️
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk
Thats seems an odd decision if its already on the end .. I would keep it to simply make my own life easier and price work more efficient 🤷‍♂️
All well and good, BUT no point if you do the work I do. We also have the "HOW LONG" attitude which unfortunately involves the fact that if you quote £2000 for a 5 day job and do it in two days the customer gets Nift.... We had it at the start of this year. Part of the reason I very rarely do price work.

I personally would veer clear of tiltys on agricultural work unless you've a lot of hedgetrimming or shear work. Rates are shite enough as it is, farmers don't like paying and the "How Long" factor is ever present.

Don't forget I dabble both sides of the fence. I'm by no means as proficient on a tilty as most, but from a business point of view I think i've got a good view of how it sits.
 
Randla

Randla

Interloper
Just to add to what has been said:

@Wsquire -there's plenty of stuff in the 'tiltrotator selection' threads which has been covered here so I won't repeat it, but I don't think these bits have been covered:

About 80% of tiltrotator installations in the UK are twin hitch for the reasons covered, but if you are not going to do (regular) hammer work and can put up with a 600mm minimum trench width because of the tilty (on a 14 tonner) then go direct mount.

Aiden @CPS is right to a point about SVAB. Steelwrist bought SVAB a few years ago, but Engcon and Rototilt had already moved away from supporting SVAB because of the safety protocols on the older systems. DCS, ICS and X-control are all dedicated to each tilty and not mix and match.

Weigh up the cost of the SS10 control against the cost of the extra line(s) for the lower-order SS9 control system

Try before you buy? Fosseway Hire have SS9 tilties on KX57s. OK, they are Engcons but there's no real difference from an evaluation point of view. They will cover Bucks.

Reliability? None of the big three make a bad tilty. They'll outlast the digger (the oldest Engcon I ever found was 2003 and still in regular use) - it's all down to service from the manufacturer.

(Hydraulic) connector problems? Yep - but not if you are a diligent Owner/Op. Keep it clean and you are fine. In the unaccompanied hire market it's problematic.

S-type reverse (face shovel)? Yes, as Aiden @CPS says, it's symetrical, but not always with a hydraulic connection system. Check, but you can run the risk of damaging the hydraulic connectors and it's expensive.

Finally, if it's agri work and you are not using hydraulic attachments, consider SS0. Only tilt and rotate; only buckets, pallet forks and non hydraulic attachments; uses digger's proportional system (which on a 140X is brilliant); plug and play and about 60% of the installed price of a full fat version.

HTH

Robert
 
R

rossandson

Member
I’m not going to start a new thread, just jump on this band wagon! I’m currently debating a tilty for my JCB 8026. It all started because I’m after a set of forks and a grab, along with potentially a hydraulic hitch. Then thought potentially a tiltrotator in the future but then when you add it up, it’s a hard call to just do it now and reap the reward from day one.

Got a price from Engcon EC02 S30 and Rototilt R1 S30. Prices are similar but still few thousand between. I can’t decide which and also if I should or shouldn’t.

I completely understand depends on the type of work you do and how you do it. Also once you have one, you realise how on earth you lived without one (within reason). I’ve had that with something similar before. Waited and waited and should have just cracked on to assist myself sooner.

Just a tough shout, due to the unknown slightly and the cost outlay. Want to do the right thing, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I know that @Gunners has an Engcon on his 8026 which well documented and now a couple years old found the goods and the bads.

Does anyone else have a tilty on a smaller machine? Also alternatively feedback on Rototilt or Engcon, which would you choose? Thoughts and feedback welcomed!
 
BillybobLockwood

BillybobLockwood

Member
I’m not going to start a new thread, just jump on this band wagon! I’m currently debating a tilty for my JCB 8026. It all started because I’m after a set of forks and a grab, along with potentially a hydraulic hitch. Then thought potentially a tiltrotator in the future but then when you add it up, it’s a hard call to just do it now and reap the reward from day one.

Got a price from Engcon EC02 S30 and Rototilt R1 S30. Prices are similar but still few thousand between. I can’t decide which and also if I should or shouldn’t.

I completely understand depends on the type of work you do and how you do it. Also once you have one, you realise how on earth you lived without one (within reason). I’ve had that with something similar before. Waited and waited and should have just cracked on to assist myself sooner.

Just a tough shout, due to the unknown slightly and the cost outlay. Want to do the right thing, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I know that @Gunners has an Engcon on his 8026 which well documented and now a couple years old found the goods and the bads.

Does anyone else have a tilty on a smaller machine? Also alternatively feedback on Rototilt or Engcon, which would you choose? Thoughts and feedback welcomed!
Smp also has there ST4 model out now, may be worth a look.
 
TiltyShaun

TiltyShaun

Well-known member
I’m not going to start a new thread, just jump on this band wagon! I’m currently debating a tilty for my JCB 8026. It all started because I’m after a set of forks and a grab, along with potentially a hydraulic hitch. Then thought potentially a tiltrotator in the future but then when you add it up, it’s a hard call to just do it now and reap the reward from day one.

Got a price from Engcon EC02 S30 and Rototilt R1 S30. Prices are similar but still few thousand between. I can’t decide which and also if I should or shouldn’t.

I completely understand depends on the type of work you do and how you do it. Also once you have one, you realise how on earth you lived without one (within reason). I’ve had that with something similar before. Waited and waited and should have just cracked on to assist myself sooner.

Just a tough shout, due to the unknown slightly and the cost outlay. Want to do the right thing, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I know that @Gunners has an Engcon on his 8026 which well documented and now a couple years old found the goods and the bads.

Does anyone else have a tilty on a smaller machine? Also alternatively feedback on Rototilt or Engcon, which would you choose? Thoughts and feedback welcomed!
I have my Engcon on a Kx71-3 Kubota. An older machine that is 2.8ton conventional tail swing. Had it 3 years and was one of the early low weight machine users on the old style simple system. I would not want to be without it. Mine is direct mount and has not been removed.
I can’t say it is better than a rototilt as I have never had one or tried one. I am just down the road from Engcon and the service has been first class. In fairness apart from a problem with the levers very early on my problems have been slightly self inflected operator error. Bit the help and response has always been great. If you you to send me a pm with your number I will happily give you a call at the weekend and talk for hours about my experience.
 
R

rossandson

Member
I have my Engcon on a Kx71-3 Kubota. An older machine that is 2.8ton conventional tail swing. Had it 3 years and was one of the early low weight machine users on the old style simple system. I would not want to be without it. Mine is direct mount and has not been removed.
I can’t say it is better than a rototilt as I have never had one or tried one. I am just down the road from Engcon and the service has been first class. In fairness apart from a problem with the levers very early on my problems have been slightly self inflected operator error. Bit the help and response has always been great. If you you to send me a pm with your number I will happily give you a call at the weekend and talk for hours about my experience.
Thanks! So I’d be in right in taking that the SS1 works off your pedal. Do you find that tiresome and I presume you have no grab on that particular machine?

Oh your local to me too then! As Engcon in Tewkesbury is mere stone throw away. Which does also go in their favour slightly.

It’s just still quite an investment for a small startup like me. I just keep going round in circles, must be how all the tiltys feel. Ha!
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk
Perhaps naivety but I’ve never heard of SMP and if it’s a new product in their range to market not sure if I want to be the Guinea pig.
SMP have been around for a long time. Just new in the UK. All tiltys break.... I've pictures of broken engcons, malfunctioning rototilts and scrap steelwrists. But on the whole they are pretty bulletproof if your sensible

But go take yourself and look at Shaun Pitt an Ollie Gunns machines. They are both f****ng weirdos so wear a tin foil hat to be accepted by them 🤣 welcome to the forum btw.
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Well-known member
SMP are not a new manufacturer, and their products will be as strong/well made as those from Engcon, Rototilt and Steelwrist as they’ve all been at this job a long time in Scandinavia. I’ve got an SMP Quickhitch above a Rototilt on my Takeuchi, and I personally think it’s better than the Engcon Quickhitch that’s above another Rototilt on my Bobcat. Both machines run S40 and the QHs are used infrequently but enough to warrant their fitting - the SMP is lower profile and never fails to open, the Engcon often needs ‘persuading’...
UK backup is what you need to consider - I’ve had great service from all 3 providers (the SMP was essentially purchased direct from Sweden but I had it within a week of ordering),but also had a ridiculous delay in obtaining the QH from Engcon which held up delivery of my new Bobcat for weeks... Rototilt service has always been exceptional in my experience.
Don’t expect to move/control much palletised weight with forks on a small machine - they will lift a lot as you obviously know but it is amazing how the excavator geometry puts your load a long way from the machine if trying to pick/place onto a trailer/into a pickup bed/onto another pallet etc.
Grabs are just brilliant - if you are going down this route anyway then you might as well pay the extra for a tilty!... Proper fixed rotator grabs are dear - put the rotator part of the money into a tiltrotator instead, I can’t see you regretting in. Intermercato Tigergrip grabs are very good and relatively inexpensive.
 
Pedrod355

Pedrod355

Member
Penny's worth- what ever brand you go with, make sure who does the install has a good reputation of returning to do warranty work, found out this at my cost! Tweaking/sorting gremlins via remote support just doesn’t work 100% @engcon
 
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