Benford Terex TV1200 Roller problem.

Shovelhands

Shovelhands

Well-known member
Bit of an odd one.....

we have TV1200 roller, iirc it’s 2007 vintage? Anyway, been a good machine, but the other day it developed a strange fault. I wasn’t driving it, and unfortunately I wasn’t on site when it happened, so I assume/ have been told something has failed/broken rather than an issue that has got progressively worse. It had had a fair hard day of it that day, probably did 8 hours flat out, which is unusual for a roller I would have thought, and certainly unusual for my roller! But I can’t see how this is of any significance? Or is it?.....

As I say, been faultless, with no strange behaviour before. Now when you pull the travel lever backwards it lurches forwards! reverse alarm is going and if you persists with pulling the lever backwards it will eventually stop going forwards and start going backwards, but backwards is now a snails pace and will not increase the speed. Then when the lever is placed in the neutral position it’s creeping forwards. If you travel forwards it appears normal (might be reduced travel speed, can’t be sure),and it’s not as smooth and predictable to get going now, but when the lever is released and placed in neutral, it freewheels, no automatic braking, brakes eventually come in, but not for a couple of seconds/meters, I assume this is partly responsible for the creeping when going from reverse to neutral? There’s a noticeable jolt forwards when you initially start up too, which is a new thing I’ve certainly never noticed that before, it stays put, but there’s a little jolt as soon as she’s running, odd.

wondering if anyone has had similar issues? Or heard of similar issues? I’m thinking it could be a similar system to the 1t dumpers, and I’m sure someone was talking about issues with them the other day, but I can’t remember where?

any help or ideas are much appreciated, it’s certainly got me thinking!

Thanks for reading 👍
 
C

craig

Active member
If its a cable control. guessing the cable is getting frayed/stretching, or a bracket holding the outer is cracked and moving.
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

Well-known member
If its a cable control. guessing the cable is getting frayed/stretching, or a bracket holding the outer is cracked and moving.
Yes it’s cable control, lever on the pump is moving as it should I think, yes theres a bit of slack in the cable end, but not much really. The outer Id anchored both end fine by the looks of it.

I can’t decide if this fault is mechanical, electrical or hydraulic? 🤦‍♂️
 
GazCro

GazCro

Well-known member
Yes it’s cable control, lever on the pump is moving as it should I think, yes theres a bit of slack in the cable end, but not much really. The outer Id anchored both end fine by the looks of it.

I can’t decide if this fault is mechanical, electrical or hydraulic? 🤦‍♂️
New cable needed i would think as said above inner stretched or nearly snapped or outer cable disintegrated. Had it with bomag roller few years ago loading it onto trailer to take back to yard was fun as steering angle pulled/pushed cable made roller lurch about a bit.
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

Well-known member
I’m thinking now that I’ve got a failure in the pump somewhere. The filter gauge was showing just into the red, I removed the filter to get the numbers, and have found significant debris in the filter housing, which can only have come down the return line I think?

I appreciate that the cable could be going, but this one appears to be operating normally, with no resistance etc.
with a bit of Heath Robinson testing I had sort of convinced myself that the pump was at fault, so pulled the filter thinking I’d change it to see if by some miracle it fixed it, now finding the debris has confirmed it in my mind that there’s a failure within the pump.
 
TiltyShaun

TiltyShaun

Well-known member
Had something very similar many years ago. The pump was bypassing internally and had a mind of its own!, hopefully the cable suggestion is what you have!!
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
I’m thinking now that I’ve got a failure in the pump somewhere. The filter gauge was showing just into the red, I removed the filter to get the numbers, and have found significant debris in the filter housing, which can only have come down the return line I think?

I appreciate that the cable could be going, but this one appears to be operating normally, with no resistance etc.
with a bit of Heath Robinson testing I had sort of convinced myself that the pump was at fault, so pulled the filter thinking I’d change it to see if by some miracle it fixed it, now finding the debris has confirmed it in my mind that there’s a failure within the pump.
variable or fixed displacement pump James ??
 
GazCro

GazCro

Well-known member
Im not ruling out pump or hydraulic problem but i would check cable to be sure as it's cheaper and easier to replace. What you describe does sound like cable (apart from debris in filter). If it's like bomag system which i assume it will be similar the cable only deals with forward reverse and neutral. Brake is controlled by magnetic contact when control lever drops into slot and reverse beeper off a micro switch. If cable is stretched roller is effectively in forward when handle says neutral and brake is on hence jolt when you start it up, at same time explains why when you go to reverse beep starts while still travelling forwards. Im not saying ur wrong just to be sure about cable. You could disconnect cable from pump and see how it performs manually.
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

Well-known member
Im not ruling out pump or hydraulic problem but i would check cable to be sure as it's cheaper and easier to replace. What you describe does sound like cable (apart from debris in filter). If it's like bomag system which i assume it will be similar the cable only deals with forward reverse and neutral. Brake is controlled by magnetic contact when control lever drops into slot and reverse beeper off a micro switch. If cable is stretched roller is effectively in forward when handle says neutral and brake is on hence jolt when you start it up, at same time explains why when you go to reverse beep starts while still travelling forwards. Im not saying ur wrong just to be sure about cable. You could disconnect cable from pump and see how it performs manually.
All good points and suggestions.

I have tried it with the cable disconnected, when the stick is in neutral the pump is also, so I don’t think there’s and major issues with the cable, yes there’s a little slack in the pivots either end, but nothing too terrible. And the cable moves easily and positively.
I’m happy that the electrical side of the travel is working, as you cannot get it to move by operating the pump lever alone, you must move the stick, which appears to have proximity sensors of some sort rather than micro switches, moving the stick powers a solenoid on the pump, with this solenoid energised, you can then gain drive. Actually you can get forward drive just by energising the solenoid, which I suspect is wrong? Without another one to use as a test mule I can’t be sure of that though.

As I said, I’d sort of decide that the pump was the problem, and one last ditch attempt was a fresh filter (I didn’t hold much hope for that though) , but finding the metal in the filter housing was surprising tbh! I can’t really go any further with it until I get the pump overhauled.

This roller has a bit of history tbh, and I suppose I can’t rule out this metal in the filter housing coming from a previous issue when it was with its original owner. But my gut tells me it’s not going to be that sort of fairytale.....
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

Well-known member
variable or fixed displacement pump James ??
Variable as far as I know, but not your average variable pump. As the travel direction is dealt with within the pump itself, no external control valves for travel.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Variable as far as I know, but not your average variable pump. As the travel direction is dealt with within the pump itself, no external control valves for travel.
got to be a reversing valve in the pump somewhere ... it doesn't change rotational direction .... I assumed variable as the speed's variable at fixed revs ... would guess the control has an influence on the swash as well as controlling direction ... what's the debris look like James ?

EDIT .. ok just seen the pic above !!! roller bearing's guts BTLS ... WTF is the bent bar ?? doesn't look to have been chewed at all though, so just spat out and not been through a 'mincer' so down stream of the pump/motors
 
Quattromike

Quattromike

Well member-known
got to be a reversing valve in the pump somewhere ... it doesn't change rotational direction .... I assumed variable as the speed's variable at fixed revs ... would guess the control has an influence on the swash as well as controlling direction ... what's the debris look like James ?

EDIT .. ok just seen the pic above !!! roller bearing's guts BTLS ... WTF is the bent bar ?? doesn't look to have been chewed at all though, so just spat out and not been through a 'mincer' so down stream of the pump/motors
Is it the piston from the pump and or part of the swash plate?
 
jd6820

jd6820

Member
I'd just pull the pump myself. There's nowt to them. Charge pump built into the front or rear (a gear pump). Then you split it down and find a swash plate and the associated gubbins. I'm sure the fault will then be immediately obvious. Parts can be got but quite expensive, to the point a new pump might be cheaper?
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

Well-known member
Yes it certainly looks like a roller bearing, and none of it looks to have been chewed, apart from that bit of rod/wire, no idea wtf that is, but it’s had some punishment! Of course the damage inside the pump could be considerable as it’s been running after the failure occurred. I’ve not had the tank off yet, so there could be more debris?
I will remove the pump next week, I could dismantle it myself, but obtaining parts for it will probably not be easy? I’m too busy and have got enough to do as it is, I have a great hydraulic man who I will send it to, I’ll get him to have a look and go from there.
 
GazCro

GazCro

Well-known member
You may find it's not the pump, you'd think if that number of parts had come from/ thorough the pump problem would have been worse ie no drive. Sorry not what you wanna hear
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

Well-known member
You may find it's not the pump, you'd think if that number of parts had come from/ thorough the pump problem would have been worse ie no drive. Sorry not what you wanna hear
I agree, it is odd that it’s still driving at all! We will see, only one way to find out for sure!
 
GazCro

GazCro

Well-known member
I agree, it is odd that it’s still driving at all! We will see, only one way to find out for sure!
My only other thought is that'll be a return filter so all those parts have come all the way through the hydraulic system. If pump appears ok trace back from the filter. Bearing parts could be from drive/vib motors
 
Shovelhands

Shovelhands

Well-known member
Your absolutely right about it being a return filter, and of course the other components in the system could have broken up. I’d have to look at the plumbing again, but I think there’s a large (3/4) return hose straight from the pump to the return. There are other things teed into this return but the motor returns and the two other geared pump returns all go through the oil cooler first, I cant see how large lumps like those rollers could make their way up from the drive or vibe motors, the hoses/pipes are very small, and id expect them to get collected in the oil cooler.
either way this isn’t going to be cheap, but it’s also no bloody good as it is......
 
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Mogman

Mogman

What man as done, man can do, what never has,maybe
The pump will have a large bore case drain back to tank so could be out of that, they are quite simple things with only a hand ful of pistons and a swash plate that controls forward neural and reverse and that’s about it really 🤔 had a few to bits in my time
 
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